^^^
You got in before me, Presti.
Trade Targets ~ Free Agency & MSD player discussion
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MatthewBoydFanClub
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The Black and White Lion
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We haven’t had anything out of Kelly or Dean yet. Kelly needs to have a go or be shipped out. Dean’s needs to get his feet and fitness right. McMahon doesn’t look like he will have any meat on those bones so won’t win a contest at senior level. Another unknown quantity otherwise we’re only likely to get some improvement from these guys if they play. Howe and Murphy clearly better than these 3 at the moment. Let’s hope Dean gets fit and can play.Pies4shaw wrote:^ I don't think we expected Roughead's retirement. We need a real stopper for the big KPFs. That's not Moore's go and Howe simply isn't big enough. It's a great credit to the defenders that they held it together so well, all season - but, really, they were undermanned all year down back. Size-wise, I mean - they lacked nothing for heart and determination but you don't get any bigger just because you are more desperate.
Begg looks like more of a KPP size than a ruck but doesn’t have the muscle yet for either role on a regular basis. Needs a few years on the good feed and in the weights room to build up
Everyone mocked Carlton on the Lewis Young trade last year but looks to have been a good trade so far. Any other hidden gems about not getting a game on other lists?
If Frampton comes in he can play KPP or back up ruck. Has the size and the bigger frame should be better than the options above one on one and under the ball. Does he have the mobility at that size though?
McStay could play forward or back if he comes to the pies too. Reckon the back 6 needs to settle more than the forward 6 though.
Both could help release Mihocek. Checkers has pretty much played 98% of game time up forward with only a few late floods to cover the defence. He could become the third tall and benefit that way or play as a strong 2nd or 3rd tall defender.
Harry Himmelberg would be a good trade in my mind but he’s not a number 1 KPF, he’s another second or third tall.
I reckon we need to give Krueger a chance though. He’s only played parts of 5 games in b&w so we don’t quite know what we’ve got yet.
Melican wants out of swans. He could be an option too down back but if we’re bringing in 3 players already and need to use 3 draft picks we’re already choc full
Ed Allen kicked our last goal of the year at the 58minute mark
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Presti35
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Ok, lets try this again.
Inside Mid:
In the case Henry is traded to Geelong, will we accept Parfitt and a pick upgrade? (In the dedicated Henry thread, I think we're all in agreement that we need to keep Oli)
Will a mid ranged pick get Tom Mitchell to the club? He has one year to run on his contract. Do the Hawks give him up cheaply??
Or is Matt Crouch a player to target?
Brayden Fiorini is a gettable player from the Suns. Look at Will Brodie last year. A mid ranged pick could get this over the line.
Riley Collier-Dawkins could be available if Richmond are getting the 2 GWS lads.
Hate to say it, but Paddy Dow if delisted could come up. But he could be the new Sier.
Key Forward:
Do we really want to go for Sam Weideman? A late pick could get this done. Is it worth the risk? He can play forward and ruck.
McStay will be signing as a free agent.
Jackson Callow has been delisted by the Hawks. We had interest in him previously.
Gunstons name comes up every year. Now 30, the Hawks are looking to move him on?
Key Defender:
Billy Frampton is coming. Hopefully for a late pick. He can play back and ruck.
Small Forward:
Hill is coming. Hopefully for a 3rd rounder.
And the super unlikely:
If WCE give up pick 2 for Jackson, can that pick come our way for Grundy with it then going to Essendon for one of Parish, Wright or Draper? Or to Carlton for McKay? And is Bailey Smith really available??
I dunno, I just want to see JDG re-sign along with Henry. And I want the best possible outcome in the Grundy circus. And I want to address the Key Forward and Inside Mid issue we're facing. (If only we traded for Peter Wright and Will Brodie in previous seasons).
Inside Mid:
In the case Henry is traded to Geelong, will we accept Parfitt and a pick upgrade? (In the dedicated Henry thread, I think we're all in agreement that we need to keep Oli)
Will a mid ranged pick get Tom Mitchell to the club? He has one year to run on his contract. Do the Hawks give him up cheaply??
Or is Matt Crouch a player to target?
Brayden Fiorini is a gettable player from the Suns. Look at Will Brodie last year. A mid ranged pick could get this over the line.
Riley Collier-Dawkins could be available if Richmond are getting the 2 GWS lads.
Hate to say it, but Paddy Dow if delisted could come up. But he could be the new Sier.
Key Forward:
Do we really want to go for Sam Weideman? A late pick could get this done. Is it worth the risk? He can play forward and ruck.
McStay will be signing as a free agent.
Jackson Callow has been delisted by the Hawks. We had interest in him previously.
Gunstons name comes up every year. Now 30, the Hawks are looking to move him on?
Key Defender:
Billy Frampton is coming. Hopefully for a late pick. He can play back and ruck.
Small Forward:
Hill is coming. Hopefully for a 3rd rounder.
And the super unlikely:
If WCE give up pick 2 for Jackson, can that pick come our way for Grundy with it then going to Essendon for one of Parish, Wright or Draper? Or to Carlton for McKay? And is Bailey Smith really available??
I dunno, I just want to see JDG re-sign along with Henry. And I want the best possible outcome in the Grundy circus. And I want to address the Key Forward and Inside Mid issue we're facing. (If only we traded for Peter Wright and Will Brodie in previous seasons).
A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned!
Collingwoods 2022 draft indicative order as it stands until trade period begins.
16, 42, 47 and 48. Minimum of three selections to be taken at National draft.
Possible departures to improve our draft position - Grundy and Henry ( nothing official )
Additions to diminish our draft position - Frampton and Hill ( both official requests ) The McStay addition ( not yet official ) does not impact our draft hand.
Note - Some clubs are already planning to improve their 2023 draft hands as it’s considered a bumper crop. Future picks will be very desirable for clubs who are looking to rebuild their lists. Point being, a club may potentially receive a better than usual return this year if it chooses to trade out their early pick in the 2023 draft. We are a club who may consider this opportunity because we already have a young list and a premiership window that’s open in the now.
16, 42, 47 and 48. Minimum of three selections to be taken at National draft.
Possible departures to improve our draft position - Grundy and Henry ( nothing official )
Additions to diminish our draft position - Frampton and Hill ( both official requests ) The McStay addition ( not yet official ) does not impact our draft hand.
Note - Some clubs are already planning to improve their 2023 draft hands as it’s considered a bumper crop. Future picks will be very desirable for clubs who are looking to rebuild their lists. Point being, a club may potentially receive a better than usual return this year if it chooses to trade out their early pick in the 2023 draft. We are a club who may consider this opportunity because we already have a young list and a premiership window that’s open in the now.
Last edited by Pies2016 on Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
What do we get if Gundry and Henry both go?
Grundy will depend on:
- what Melbourne have to give (currently #32, #41, #50 - so not much). Therefore most likely linked to what they get for Jackson from Freo (who have #13 and #85). Maybe #13 it is then...
- how much of his salary we pay (the more we pay the more we get in return). If we get #13, this probably means we are paying all of the $300k which has been rumored.
Henry potentially a little simpler. Mid 20s? Cats currently have #18 and #36. We know that will change - cant see them parting with #18 for him as much as we might all believe that would be fair. Maybe pick #18 and we give them something else back? Future third rounder?
So - maybe we add #13 and #18 to our current position (#16) and give up #42 (back to Geelong). That would be a very strong position IMO.
Could potentially try and move higher in the draft, load into next year's draft (probably better for us to spend now given where we are at). Maybe we take one of those high picks and turn it into a couple lower ones to facilitate the Hill and Frampton trades.
Its pretty clear we wont have a lot of $$ space, so unlikely we would be using our high draft picks as trade tools.
Add a couple more role players, add some more promising youth (hopefully with some size!!) and hopefully keep next years draft hand in tact.
Will be interested to watch it unfold. We'll never know otherwise, but wonder how much the club's plans may have changed over the course of the year with a few of our kids developing quicker (and maybe a few older guys deteriorating quicker?). Dont feel like we should be taking a 3 year rebuilding approach, but I feel like the list (and not the spirit, effort, game plan) is what held us back this year.
Really keen to see what Kreuger and Dean might be able to add next year if fit too.
Exciting.
Grundy will depend on:
- what Melbourne have to give (currently #32, #41, #50 - so not much). Therefore most likely linked to what they get for Jackson from Freo (who have #13 and #85). Maybe #13 it is then...
- how much of his salary we pay (the more we pay the more we get in return). If we get #13, this probably means we are paying all of the $300k which has been rumored.
Henry potentially a little simpler. Mid 20s? Cats currently have #18 and #36. We know that will change - cant see them parting with #18 for him as much as we might all believe that would be fair. Maybe pick #18 and we give them something else back? Future third rounder?
So - maybe we add #13 and #18 to our current position (#16) and give up #42 (back to Geelong). That would be a very strong position IMO.
Could potentially try and move higher in the draft, load into next year's draft (probably better for us to spend now given where we are at). Maybe we take one of those high picks and turn it into a couple lower ones to facilitate the Hill and Frampton trades.
Its pretty clear we wont have a lot of $$ space, so unlikely we would be using our high draft picks as trade tools.
Add a couple more role players, add some more promising youth (hopefully with some size!!) and hopefully keep next years draft hand in tact.
Will be interested to watch it unfold. We'll never know otherwise, but wonder how much the club's plans may have changed over the course of the year with a few of our kids developing quicker (and maybe a few older guys deteriorating quicker?). Dont feel like we should be taking a 3 year rebuilding approach, but I feel like the list (and not the spirit, effort, game plan) is what held us back this year.
Really keen to see what Kreuger and Dean might be able to add next year if fit too.
Exciting.
It's never as good/nor bad as it seems...
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stui magpie
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Screw Geelong. Henry was a pick 17, we've put 2 years of development into him and he's a required player. Pick 18 is bare minimum and we give nothing back.
Similar with Grundy. If he goes I'd be looking for more than just pick 13.
Similar with Grundy. If he goes I'd be looking for more than just pick 13.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
Sure - except trades are almost never "stuff you" are they? I certainly hope our club doesn't start to go down the Dodoro path of negotiating.stui magpie wrote:Screw Geelong. Henry was a pick 17, we've put 2 years of development into him and he's a required player. Pick 18 is bare minimum and we give nothing back.
Similar with Grundy. If he goes I'd be looking for more than just pick 13.
If the club was prepared to pay Henry more, then they would have already offered it. So maybe he actually wants to go - in which case there is no point in threatening to keep him (look at the ridiculous Lobb/Fremantle situation). So you do the trade that both sides can live with and move on. Maybe it does just end up being pick #18?
If we can get more from Melbourne great - but my original comment was based on what they currently have to give and what the might inherit elsewhere. Maybe they can part with something from next year's draft? What do we really want from this trade?? ...To minimise the $$$ cost. Its not about what pick we get in return IMO - and if it was then perhaps we could hold a firmer line. The more we want back, the less they will want to pay of his salary.
It's never as good/nor bad as it seems...
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stui magpie
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I wouldn't want to go down the Dodo ro path either but I also don't want to be seen as a soft touch or easy target.piffdog wrote:Sure - except trades are almost never "stuff you" are they? I certainly hope our club doesn't start to go down the Dodoro path of negotiating.stui magpie wrote:Screw Geelong. Henry was a pick 17, we've put 2 years of development into him and he's a required player. Pick 18 is bare minimum and we give nothing back.
Similar with Grundy. If he goes I'd be looking for more than just pick 13.
If the club was prepared to pay Henry more, then they would have already offered it. So maybe he actually wants to go - in which case there is no point in threatening to keep him (look at the ridiculous Lobb/Fremantle situation). So you do the trade that both sides can live with and move on. Maybe it does just end up being pick #18?
If we can get more from Melbourne great - but my original comment was based on what they currently have to give and what the might inherit elsewhere. Maybe they can part with something from next year's draft? What do we really want from this trade?? ...To minimise the $$$ cost. Its not about what pick we get in return IMO - and if it was then perhaps we could hold a firmer line. The more we want back, the less they will want to pay of his salary.
We don't know how much Henry is asking for or whether his supposed "homesickness" would be cured by a wad off cash. He's a required player. Yeah players can nearly always get more money by changing clubs, that's the premium you have to pay to get people in, doesn't mean you get paid the same to stay.
We want him to stay, If he wants to go to Geelong and they want him, they need to pay a fair price and pick 18 on it's own would be barely adequate.
On Grundy, I don't believe this is a fire sale. From everything I've read, my opinion is that the club rate him, just not as highly as he's being paid so if a good enough trade was offered that would remove a chunk of salary cap we'd be up for it, but only if the trade was worth it. Otherwise he stays (my preferred option BTW)
Pick 13 would be the starting point for Grundy, then goes into the mix how much, if any, of his salry we're prepared to pay and what else they can throw into the deal, be it draft picks or a player.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
