Post Match. Pies cop a Hawk hiding - all comments

[jack_spain]

Huh, one bad game?

I think you need to take a look at the bigger picture, and not simply bag out fellow supporters for their opinions.

Our team is full of holes, that aren't going to be resolved in one game.

Reality check, Essendon were crap last week, go back and watch the game. The Pies were not exactly playing premiership football themselves.

We have too many passengers in our team, that MM continues to play week in week out, regardless of their form.

I'll second that Stevie!

[Big T]

Another key difference is the Hawks have really struck gold with Roughhead and Franklin, rather than going for midfielders they took 2 fantastic KPPs in the top 5. The only KPP in the top few we have taken is Fraser and he has never reached his potential, that is hurting us badly now. You look at the other we have taken, Egan top 10 (big question marks on him), Rusling 2nd round - if not for injuries would be dominant, Cloke F-S will still be a gun but is finding it tough when Rocca isnt next to him which is understandable, Reid - unknown at this stage, and Dawes is the same.

So our future is really relying on Thomas pulling his finger out to justify his 2nd draft pick, and a combination of Reid-Dawes-Cloke being dominant forwards to justify their top picks. Rusling I think has already proven himself a match winner, BUT will he get back on the park?

So on paper we have a great future. Problem is, almost every club can say that. Player development is the key, and calling for 16 players to be changed is just ridiculous for a club with our resources.

Which brings me to my final point. How is it that we simply cannot turn off field success into premierships? Statistically we should be winning 1 every 15 years. With our resources, that should be say 1 every 10 years. There is nothing wrong with supporters expecting that, what is wrong is supporters getting caned for suggesting we don't look like doing it. The Hawks have been a fricking shambles off the field until recently and they pulled our pants down and look certainties to go all the way in the near future, we need to take this situation seriously and make use of our huge resources much better.

[rocketronnie]

Further to what I said a few pages back, we have a serious leadership problem. Maybe that starts at the top of the team. I'm loathe to say it but I don't see Scott Burns - 110% All Collingwood committed player that he is, doing the things on field that Buckley did. he's a different person for sure, but the leadership is not filtering through either on or off the field perhaps. Maybe we were spolit with the quality of leadership Buckley gave us but there seems to be little on field discipline at the moment. I'm not saying sack him or anything but whether he goes on next year is maybe problematic. Maybe its a good idea to give the heads up now to whoever's going to replace him and begin the work of rebuilding the leadership group...

[SteveH67]

Another key difference is the Hawks have really struck gold with Roughhead and Franklin, rather than going for midfielders they took 2 fantastic KPPs in the top 5. The only KPP in the top few we have taken is Fraser and he has never reached his potential, that is hurting us badly now. You look at the other we have taken, Egan top 10 (big question marks on him), Rusling 2nd round - if not for injuries would be dominant, Cloke F-S will still be a gun but is finding it tough when Rocca isnt next to him which is understandable, Reid - unknown at this stage, and Dawes is the same.

So our future is really relying on Thomas pulling his finger out to justify his 2nd draft pick, and a combination of Reid-Dawes-Cloke being dominant forwards to justify their top picks. Rusling I think has already proven himself a match winner, BUT will he get back on the park?

So on paper we have a great future. Problem is, almost every club can say that. Player development is the key, and calling for 16 players to be changed is just ridiculous for a club with our resources.

Which brings me to my final point. How is it that we simply cannot turn off field success into premierships? Statistically we should be winning 1 every 15 years. With our resources, that should be say 1 every 10 years. There is nothing wrong with supporters expecting that, what is wrong is supporters getting caned for suggesting we don't look like doing it. The Hawks have been a fricking shambles off the field until recently and they pulled our pants down and look certainties to go all the way in the near future, we need to take this situation seriously and make use of our huge resources much better.

Yeah, but the problem is, the draft took away the ability of the richer clubs to dominate the competition. Our resources off the field, mean very little in a competition that uses salary caps and player drafts.

The draft is a hit and miss affair, my god, how many high draft picks have failed us over the last decade or so.

My understanding, is that the Lexus Centre facilities aren't all that they are cracked up to be either. We are sharing the facilities like the gym etc with other clubs/groups.

[nomadjack]

The only KPP in the top few we have taken is Fraser and he has never reached his potential, that is hurting us badly now.

Reid and Brown are both kpps and were taken first round. Anthony and Dawes were also relatively early and will probably play kp. Come back in three years when they've been in the system as long as Franklin and Roughhead. To say the Hawks have been a shambles off-field is also wrong. They've been strong as an administration for a long time.

The Hawks spent three years in the shit on-field and reaped the rewards in terms of early draft picks. We're going through the same process, and once we have the same number of games in our early picks we'll reap the same rewards. It's not rocket science.

[Lone Ranger]

Hawthorn's zone defence pushes everyone wide. Everyone tries to go around it rather than through it and fails.
I think you either need to go long and risk a contest, or you need highly skilled midfielders who can work there was through it. Our midfielders are hard workers but not highly skilled.
Rather than trying to go around the zone, I would rather we tried to go long. I would rather lose trying that than what we did today.

[Dave The Man]

Hawthorn's zone defence pushes everyone wide. Everyone tries to go around it rather than through it and fails.
I think you either need to go long and risk a contest, or you need highly skilled midfielders who can work there was through it. Our midfielders are hard workers but not highly skilled.
Rather than trying to go around the zone, I would rather we tried to go long. I would rather lose trying that than what we did today.

I agree we should of had Cloke,Fraser or Wood or 2 and Just Bomb it over the top and Hope they mark it and Have Crumbers too

[virgomag]

Firstly, well done and keep going to Nathan Brown. In only his seventh game of AFL I think he did pretty well on the competitions (current) best forward.

The Hawks appeared to be much quicker but our guy's weren't backing themselves !!! I suppose at least when Rocca plays they tend to bomb it long thinking he'll take the mark. Whether Rocca is down there or not, they need to believe in themselves and their team mates, bomb it long and give someone a chance to take a grab and/or knock it down to crumbers.

I don't think Cooky is quite there yet and would replace him with Iles. Young McCarthy takes them on and backs himself and will be a good player. As for the forward line, I'm really hoping Macaffer has a day out tomorrow and get's a chance against the Aints !!!

[RudeBoy]

Our game plan sucks.

[Mr. Chairman]

Our gameplan is reliant on control.

Today we garnered that for about half a quarter. This is why we are a run-on team, we have spurts of brilliance when we are in control of the game, when not at least we are a good one on one team.

I think it's a good game plan, just not appreciated by the hoof and hope it down the middle nostalgic football fans stuck in the past unfortunately.

[sherrife]

The Hawks were so good today that I almost enjoyed watching them beat us.

What an amazing team, I reckon they will win the flag this year... tougher than Geelong, I reckon they will intimidate the cats.


Am starting to think MM's time is up, not because he's sh!t, but just because he's been around too long, and a shakeup is required. I think it's clear that we're not going to win this year, and probably not the next either. If we're going to continue rebuilding, I would be happy to give a new coach a chance to construct their team from scratch.

[Dave The Man]

Am starting to think MM's time is up, not because he's sh!t, but just because he's been around too long, and a shakeup is required. I think it's clear that we're not going to win this year, and probably not the next either. If we're going to continue rebuilding, I would be happy to give a new coach a chance to construct their team from scratch.

I agree 10000000% MM has been a Great Coach for Us but the 10 Years without a Flag is coming up next year and Been at the Club to long and we do need a Shack Up and A New Coach would be a Great Start

[Steve86]

I'd consider dropping O'Brien actually.

I couldn't agree more with this. Harry O has had a shocking year to date. Today he made embarassing mistakes, but none more so than shirking the hard contests. What about that marking contest he pulled out of that gave Roughhead a free shot at goals? But hey, he's not Robinson Crusoe. Here's a list of young guns I think have gone backwards from last year:

Daisy - needs a serous reality check.
Pendles - true he still gets a lot of the ball, but is he using it as well as he did last year? He's nowhere nearly as consistent.
Marty - needs to develop some backbone!
Dane - where has Mr Consistency gone this year???
Travis - has the Copeland gone to his head, or will he end up like Jason or Cameron?
Heater - biggest form slump of his career so far?
Maxwell - once was considered captaincy material!!!

Have I left anyone out? A few games in the Twos might remind some of these guys what a privilege it is to play for the Black and White. It's not as if we don't have some handy young blokes to promote to the side (Wellingham, Dawes, Anthony, etc.).

heater? wtf where you pull that from, hes been probably our best all year.

[Mugwump]

Our gameplan is reliant on control.

Today we garnered that for about half a quarter. This is why we are a run-on team, we have spurts of brilliance when we are in control of the game, when not at least we are a good one on one team.

I think it's a good game plan, just not appreciated by the hoof and hope it down the middle nostalgic football fans stuck in the past unfortunately.

Actually I'm not at all in favour of "hoof it into the corridor and hope" ... that'd be worse. My impression is that we need to rediscover the skill of running the ball through the corridor with handball. Our kick-to-handball ratio is miles ahead of every other team, and kicking is a higher-risk form of disposal ; hence the many cries about skill levels on Nick's.

It is great when we control it - but all the evidence of recent weeks and much of last year (which was a good finals series but just an okay-ish H&A record) is that we are not good enough at this control game, as we break down too often going forward and turn it over.

I'm no football coach, and in the end results rather than our theories will make MM either a hero or a man whose time is up. The results at the moment are looking really shaky, though, and the evidence before our eyes at Collingwood games so far this year, seems to be that what we are doing is not working.

[Heater_39]

Very disappointing considering my hatred for the dawks, but I am already over it. Two weeks rest, modify the game plan - back ourselves in stick Didak in the guts and give Daisy a couple of weeks on the Half Back Flank.

What's more our game in two weeks is at the telstra dome, even though we didn't win a game there last year, it might just be a good change of scenary.