Pies into Jake Lever (confirmed - gone to Dees)

[Pies2016]

^^^^
Champion data ratings have him rated the 2nd best midfielder at Collingwood (behind Pendles) and 9th in the competition.
Collingwood midfielders ratings according to champion data are in order
Pendles (6th overall) Treloar (9th overall) Adams (16th overall) Wells (28th overall) Crisp (40th overall) Sidebottom (51st overall)
At the beginning of the season Pendles was rated 4th down 2 places, Trelaor 5th down 4 places, Adams 17th up 1 place, Wells 19th down 9 places Crisp 28th down 12 places & Sidebottom 47th down 4 places
Champion data is the gauge all judges use for rating players now as it has a scale of which players are judged against there own performances previously and given rating points based on that.
Our midfield (top 6 players) was rated in the preseason as the best according to champion data stats we had 6 inside the top 50 the only club to do so.
Since the beginning of the season only Adams has increased his ratings with champion data all other midfielders we had have dropped in the rankings.
We now have 5 inside the top 50 and Crisp will likely drop out now as he's spending the majority of the time off the HBF now.
GWS are the big improves as are Richmond.
Clubs like the swans west coast Fremantle Gold Coast Bulldogs have all dropped markedly over the course of the season
Make of the stats what you will but IMO the best 3 midfielders at Collingwood are our highest rated mids on champion data

We all know that the Champion Data rankings are stupid. Stop worrying about counting things and focus on game-impact. The best midfielders at Collingwood this year are, taken in order, Sidebottom, Pendlebury, Adams and Treloar. If Adams hit targets the way he did last weekend more consistently, he'd soon be at the top of the list. I'm not sure he has the skill.

There is a reason why C D is very relevant. Every AFL, TAC, VFL and some NEAFL clubs utilise their resources at varying levels. They have additional layers to their information that is a lot more specific than any conversation anyone is likely to have on here.
Clubs continually utilise C D and yet I can guarantee no club is '' utilising '' anyone on here for their comments and opinions on particular players and game styles ( with genuine respect to most posters )

The problem with quoting C D data, is that the data is only valuable if the correct filters are put in place.
Sidebottom may well be raked as 51st by some measure but his ranking is impacted because he doesn't win contested ball. That's not his thing, so why should he ranked against contested ball beasts. If you filter him as an outside mid and have minutes spent in that position as a parameter, I can guarantee that we would rank way higher. You need to use the parameters that fit his role.

The other mistake we fall for is that we watch our own team much more than the opposition. This is why most C D data is now ranked as a differential against all other players who play similar roles.
By example, every week we see Maynards mistakes and half the posters go off. If you filter Maynard as a general defender at age 20 compared to all others, he is rated well above average as a differential for all players that fall within those parameters.
We see Adams and Crisp make mistakes every week but the reality is, they POSSIBLY make less mistakes than most other players who share their position and are of similar age.

FWIW, since this is a Lever thread, by example Lever is rated way ahead of Rance after the same number of games.

I agree that raw data is by no means everything and C D are looking at potential measurements to track game awareness, accountability and picking the first options etc. They are even looking at a measurement that shows the impact of a player by way of his contribution to wins or losses over a season. This would be tool to be considered when a club trades in or trades out.

We live in different times, gentlemen. Nothing wrong with an opinion but its data that is driving the list profiles of all clubs going forward.

[qldmagpie67]

Pies2016 I agree it's only sets on numbers and how they are viewed or analysised is dependant.
I agree it's hard to compare the role Sidey plays to that of Adams for instance in our side. One is a inside mid charged with winning ball the other is a outside mid charged with using the ball.
Similarly Trelaor whilst he plays mainly outside he wouldn't have the defensive tallies Sidey would but his score involvements would be higher.
Each player brings different attributes each as valuable to a team game
I agree Sidey's rating at 51 is silly when you see some of the names ranked above him they aren't in his league in terms of game involvement (and I'm not a Sidey fan as many would know)
I'm happy with our midfield mix wouldn't mind Varcoe and Wells to be available more to add some speed but other than that I think we have a good blend

[Pies2016]

Pies2016 I agree it's only sets on numbers and how they are viewed or analysised is dependant.
I agree it's hard to compare the role Sidey plays to that of Adams for instance in our side. One is a inside mid charged with winning ball the other is a outside mid charged with using the ball.
Similarly Trelaor whilst he plays mainly outside he wouldn't have the defensive tallies Sidey would but his score involvements would be higher.
Each player brings different attributes each as valuable to a team game
I agree Sidey's rating at 51 is silly when you see some of the names ranked above him they aren't in his league in terms of game involvement (and I'm not a Sidey fan as many would know)
I'm happy with our midfield mix wouldn't mind Varcoe and Wells to be available more to add some speed but other than that I think we have a good blend

Agree that the key is to use the data to gauge any players performance relative to their position and against all similar type players.
Sidebottoms versatility is interesting in that most of his game time is spent coming in off the square and that's where his performance is then ranked as an outside mid. When he starts inside the square, his performance is ranked as an inside mid.
He has the capability to do both and his numbers need to be graded against minutes spent in each role, not as a number over the entire game.
I'm sure he would rank better as an outside mid than an inside one, particularly as a differential.

As for the need for speed, I couldn't agree more. Don't get me started. I had a conversation with a another Pies supporter about our need for more speed over a KPP but that's for another thread.

[bally12]

Just watching the Adel/Swans game. The ability doesn't match the hype on Lever. No way I'd be giving our first round pick for him.

[Stinger]

Just watching the Adel/Swans game. The ability doesn't match the hype on Lever. No way I'd be giving our first round pick for him.

What game were you watching? Beats his man, always spoils to advantage. Takes intercept marks when required.

Plays the same role as Goldy; however Goldy can't play forever.

[bally12]

Just watching the Adel/Swans game. The ability doesn't match the hype on Lever. No way I'd be giving our first round pick for him.

What game were you watching? Beats his man, always spoils to advantage. Takes intercept marks when required.

Plays the same role as Goldy; however Goldy can't play forever.

Plays on the 3rd forward, and often has no opponent at all so that he can play the intercept-marking role. More similar to Langdon than Goldy.

Don't get me wrong, he's a solid player, but doesn't have the class for us to be considering giving up pick 6 for him. Average build, average skills, no left side, average pace, not a pack mark. Don't see it sorry.

[Deja Vu]

Is he not the same player as Howe?

[themonk]

Just watching the Adel/Swans game. The ability doesn't match the hype on Lever. No way I'd be giving our first round pick for him.

What game were you watching? Beats his man, always spoils to advantage. Takes intercept marks when required.

Plays the same role as Goldy; however Goldy can't play forever.

Plays on the 3rd forward, and often has no opponent at all so that he can play the intercept-marking role. More similar to Langdon than Goldy.

Don't get me wrong, he's a solid player, but doesn't have the class for us to be considering giving up pick 6 for him. Average build, average skills, no left side, average pace, not a pack mark. Don't see it sorry.

I tend to agree, hopefully in the next year or two Shazz & Langdon will remain injury free and develop into Lever types.

What we need is a Steve May type in defence but my preference would be a Tom Lynch type in the forward line.

Lynch and Reid or Lynch and Moore would be excellent twin towers up forward.

[Cam]

Is he not the same player as Howe?

That's what I was thinking

[Pies2016]

He is 21 years old and 195cm. He is a 10 year key defenders who is well ahead in the development curve of a KPD.
Who else do we have on our list that comes anywhere near those attributes ?
Remember that the Pies wanted Howe to spend time in the forward line when he was first recruited to the club.
By getting Lever, we MAY also improve our forward line balance by sending Howe up forward.
Yes, we would all like a Lynch or a Wright but if a KPF isn't available this year, you focus on what is available and then load up again on a key forward the following year.
You can only solve a problem when there is a solution available at the time and we won't be solving all our list profile problems in one year.

[Cam]

Howe is not a forward.

[Pies2016]

Howe is not a forward.

Hey, I'm with you, particularly when Howe is in line for AA selection as a general defender. What we do know, is that the Pies ( not us ) thought otherwise when they first recruited him.
I have always believed that you can always find room for a good footballer somewhere on the ground. What I should have said, is that the Lever acquisition could also release another good player to play a different role or ply his craft elsewhere on the ground.

[WhyPhilWhy?]

Lever has apparently told the Dogs "no", and the word is he as told us the same thing.

If I was the Crows, I'd be talking to Richmond about a swap of assets.

[BazBoy]

Fox Sport talks of Jake leaving with many a complicated mix but amongst
this report of giving draft picks a few clubs in the game

Collingwood is one and it alleged our pick 6 and 36 be our weapon to secure him

Thoughts

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

My first thoughts is that the price is simply too high and we should chance ourselves in the the draft to unearth our next champion.