Our veteran quandary

[inxs88]

^Great post Swoop. A premiership validates all good and bad decisions. Part of effective renewal is exiting not only those seeming to be on the wane, but also those easier to replace. My sense is that Steele's spot on the wing the least disruptive with messrs Allan, Macrae and Ryan waiting in the wings (pardon the pun).

[Craigmac]

It is the chase of a premiership in 2019 after losing 2018, where we made numerous contract mistakes with the likes if Phillips, Treloar and Stephenson. And the following year with Grundy.

The club comes first, so its essential we make decisions in the best interests of the club. The game is changing, the season is long, the older you get the harder it is to recover each week from games and recover from injuries.

Geelong, West Coast and to a lesser degree Richmond have all shown what happens with too many older guys.

From the disastrous trade period in 2020, the shining light was our picks - yet we have already lost Henry (would he have stayed if he was played more?), Poulter (now at the dogs), and appear to be at risk of losing Macrae and McInnes. McMahon was de-listed, the only real positive being our last pick Beau at pick 44.

Macrae and McInnes cant do anymore than they have been doing in the VFL for 3 years. Bianco also has been good.

Let's be respectful of the heroes of the past but please make sure we giving opportunity to the heroes of the future.

[LaurieHolden]

Club champions set to benefit from flagged list change
A survey sent to clubs last week put forward the possibility of a veterans list, which would allow clubs to have one veteran listed outside of the primary list.

Source :
https://www.afl.com.au/news/1015436/clu ... ist-change

[RudeBoy]

Just because they're 30?

Mitchell and Crisp are fit and could (could) play another 5 years, like Pendles. Jamie's always a worry, but Coxy will stay tall for a very long time, and started in the game late. Checkers is pretty much indestructible.

I'd much rather it was a managed process over 3-4 years.

Pretty much agree with this. Cox ain't shrinking and could play for another 5 years if we want him to, Mitchell and Crisp will go for at least another 2-3. Checkers is a worry as he cops a battering each week and that must catch up with him sooner or later, Howe I reckon is on his last legs and Sidey may well decide to give it up if we win another flag.

Pendles is likely to play his last season with his Son in the team.

To my eye, Mitchell looks like he's just about buggered. I'll be happy if we get one more year from him, giving us just enough time to develop his replacement as our chief inside mid. I suspect Adams will be not far behind him.

[Piesnchess]

My take is, yes, we need to win the flag now, while they are all still playing pretty good footy, this season. I reckon if we do win, you may see Howe, sidey and Pendles all retire shorty after getting their medals, as Sellwood did , what better way to retire, with a Premership medal , its perfect.

[qldmagpie67]

Of that list the 2 who stand out to being closest to the end is Howe and Sidey
Howe’s early season injury has really hurt him in more ways than one I feel. He’s playing ok but he’s dropping marks he would normally take and his protecting that arm.
That injury might have been the catalyst for finishing a year earlier than I think he planned

Sidey’s form has been at best spasmodic. Some weeks he’s good some weeks he’s ok some weeks he’s ordinary
His ok and ordinary weeks are more frequent
He’s involvement has lessened and he’s being more exposed with leg speed as we’re trying to play a super fast game style.
Since he’s knee injury he’s been well below of what been deemed acceptable form a senior player

Personally I think those 2 are easiest to replace now than any others plus there personal form is on the decline
The great NRL coach Wayne Bennett always said it’s better to retire a player a year early than a year late and that’s where we are with these 2
Plus the $800k + we would get in cap relief could be used better elsewhere right now

[piedys]

Just because they're 30?

Mitchell and Crisp are fit and could (could) play another 5 years, like Pendles.

I'd much rather it was a managed process over 3-4 years.

I'm thinking the feeling is these mids have slowed dramatically over the past month, and have been badly exposed in the middle by younger teams recently; if they can't do it this year, then even less reason to think they can make amends in 2024 with another year on the clock.

It's 2023 or BUST for mine.

[slangman]

When age begins to catch-up the first thing that goes is leg speed.
The players that can minimise the impact of that reduction more often than not are elite kicks. It is for this reason that I think that Adams and Mitchell are the most vulnerable of the older players as their kicking is average to poor for AFL.
Pendlebury and Sidebottom on the other hand have never been quick so their elite kicking and decision making allow them to overcome leg speed issues more easily than Adams and Mitchell.
That’s not to say that Father Time won’t eventually catch-up with them but imho I would be very surprised if Adams and Mitchell were in our best 23 by mid next year.
If they are, that would be very concerning.

[WhyPhilWhy?]

Not sticking tackles we once did is the root cause - once the ball is out to the consequently unmanned opposition players, everyone looks slow.

[lazzadesilva]

Piedys wrote: I'm thinking the feeling is these mids have slowed dramatically over the past month, and have been badly exposed in the middle by younger teams recently; if they can't do it this year, then even less reason to think they can make amends in 2024 with another year on the clock.
It's 2023 or BUST for mine.[/quote]

Totally agree. We must learn from other clubs mistakes. We need to be absolutely manic driven for the flag this season otherwise we too will have the Geelong malaise. A waste of time lamenting past disasters but don’t ever underestimate the terrible impact for the few years following the 2018 GF loss. That was the worst thing but finally we have crawled back to our 2018 position. We need to make it count this time around.

[princem007]

That’s strange players are getting older and having to retire, has been happening that way since 1897 and here we are , with a team that will bring home our 16th premiership in a little over a months time some 126 years on.

Don’t forget every team faces this problem, part of list management strategy which occurs every October.
And remember it’s not your playing personnel, it’s the system.
Players will come and go due to natural attrition and list strategy.

[LaurieHolden]

All of a sudden, they've become the most valuable commodity on the list...
One thing is certain, with Graham Wright managing things, we've got the best in the business to make a call on the >30's, and the list in general.

If the AFL's flagged list change allowing clubs to have one veteran listed outside of the primary list materialises, it might just allow us to prolong any hard decisions here.

[inxs88]

The veteran list possibility unfortunately wasn't a part of the latest CBA. Thankfully our 30+ players were above average in the Finals and particularly the GF.

Maybe next year, we can manage Steele and Pendles even better than this year with a strong underbelly coming through.

[warburton lad]

I think the attitude should be , "If they are still capable of great performance levels, they are young enough..."
I think that the likes of Sidebottom, Pendles, Howe, Cox, Mihocek, Adams, Mitchell, etcetera can be managed moving into 2024.

We need to blood the likes of Macrae, Carmichael, McInnes, Allen, Begg, Ryan, Harrison and others to seamlessly integrate them into the best 23.

If the Veteran Listing gets up, I would put the least productive of the older players (who have to be over 32 and have been at the Club for over ten years) onto that list.
We still have to include them within the salary cap, but they are an add-on to our playing list.
I would be comfortable with a Will Hoskin-Elliott being delisted then re-rookied to keep him on the list in the event of a major injury.
Markov is now a Premiership player after being rookied earlier this year..

Floreat Pica, folks- in Wright and Hine we are well-placed to continue to build a flag-winning capable list...

[gurugeoff]

unless you have injuries with the body, it should be possible to play way longer than the current 'retirement' age norm, if you are a very good player to start with and you enjoy training hard (which a lot of people do)