Trade Targets ~ Free Agency & MSD player discussion

[jatsad]

I wonder if there is any interest in Matt Crouch - Adelaide will probably off load him and he is a very strong clearance player.

No. Get's it ok but disposal is very poor and just doesn't defend.
Hence why he is out.

[think better]

My Adelaide supporting mates reckon he has ramped up on his defensive side a lot this year. Not sure about his disposal efficiency bu the small bits I've seen he gets a lot of handballs out to others which tend to hit the mark. His kicking can be a bit iffy

[piffdog]

I'm not that amped about Bobby Hill. I'd rather keep Henry...

What I find challenging with bringing in players is trying to understand how much better they might be if they develop some more under a coaching team which seems to focus strongly on that part. Maybe Hill and McStay can become 50% better again with more coaching (?). I kind of feel like we have small forwards to spare (Elliott, McReery, Ginni, McInnes).

Not sure how much Hill might cost us. If not much then maybe - but not if it forces Henry out...

[Pies2016]

Just on McStay, Sam Edmund has reported that McStay and Collingwood agreed on his new home back in April. This suggests Collingwood had at least squirrelled away his contract without the need for either DeGoey or Grundy having to be moved on.
The other question remaining unanswered is, has McStay long checked out knowing he won’t be at the Lions next year. Not sure he was anything special back in 2021 either but the question remains as to where his head has been during the last couple months at the Lions. I still see him as defender at Collingwood but what we can more safely say is that he will be at the club in 2023. Maybe the discussion should now turn to what position he plays, rather than how badly he plays it.
It’s also a reminder that negotiations on players trading clubs are extensive and long winded. The longer the club take to reach outcomes on Grundy and DeGoey, the less likely we will put ourselves in a position to land a quality player in return. Keep them both and it won’t matter, of course.

[Deja Vu]

I think McStay replaces Cox in our current side. He is a forward that you can kick long to and he will stand under the ball. He also does back up ruck work.

Do you think he’s a better option than Cox. I do, and he’s younger too.

And if you think Cameron and McStay can handle the ruck duties are you prepared to trade Grundy to improve our midfield by adding Taranto? Is Taranto an upgrade on Adams? Maybe?

[stui magpie]

Cox is both a better ruck and better forward.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=C&fid2=C

[Deja Vu]

That’s a handy tool. You are looking at career. I don’t think there’s much in it.

When you switch to current season I think McStay is a clear winner, except in hitouts. As McStay would be a back up ruckman I’m not too concerned about that.

Add on the age difference (4 years) and that McStay could play KPD I think he’s the better option

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

I didn’t mention Armstrong. You did. As for “ below the belt”, I’m sure that if Brisbane had a single competent additional tall on their list, they’d get a game in preference. McStay is firing blanks. He might win 11 Brownlow Medals playing under our coach - but at the moment, he’d struggle to look good in our seconds.

Tell me seriously that there aren’t 25 players on the Brisbane list you’d rather see in black and white.

Come on mate. 25 better Brisbane players than Daniel McStay are there? How come he played 19 games this season then. Remind me how many games Jesse White played for Sydney when we recruited him. How many games did Kreuger play for us this year? He plays the same position. Go check out the championship data on Daniel McStay this season - above average for disposals and above average for marks. This all reminds me of the same criticism Leigh Brown copped when he played for us. Let’s have this same conversation same time next year.

There are 12 players who have played more games for Brisbane this year than McStay. The 12 does not include Rich, Zorko, Adams, Ah Chee, Daniher, Gardiner, Fort, Robinson or Hipwood. That gets me to 21 and I haven't bothered to review the rest of their list.

White played 15 for the Swans the year before he came to us. He kicked 20 goals in those 15 games. Here's your player compare of McStay's 2022 and White's final year in Sydney - White is ahead on the averages in most areas: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... fopt2=2013

For Collingwood, this year, McCreery has played 19 and De Goey has played 16 - I doubt that I can persuade you that McCreery is the better player.

I'm not sure any of the stats matter much, though - White and McStay were/are both potatoes. Collingwood can recruit McStay if they want - but, in my respectful opinion, it would be a bizarre and pointless decision to do so, unless he's coming as depth and on a contract worth next to nothing. My main concern, though, is with the lunacy being spruiked on here to the effect that Grundy and $300K of his salary goes to Melbourne and we pay, in substance, the balance of Grundy's salary to an incoming McStay. I don't see how anyone in possession of their faculties could seriously think that was a net benefit to Collingwood. If we have a means of bringing in an elite mid (or even, say, Taranto - who is about the 6th best-performed in the GWS midfield, this season - but lets pretend for a moment that he is a gun) and paying them elite-mid money and get McStay for an inflated salary, then we must be able to keep Grundy, get the elite mid and let Melbourne have McStay - which do you think Melbourne would prefer?

Fair enough. We just have to agree to disagree. This time next year we'll know whether his recruitment was a success. A couple of points. The stat sheet is only a guide. One of the hardest positions on the ground to play is the tall forward role. There's more to a forward role than kicking goals. McStay isn't the go to lead forward at Brisbane. There are two others ahead of him in that role. Collingwood's forward line is structured totally differently. You wouldn't even say Mihocek is the go to leading forward in the side. Jamie Elliot is as much the go to leading forward. Mihocek does a lot of things that go unnoticed that you don't see on a stat sheet. McStay does similar at Brisbane. His role is more to protect the other forwards. Jesse White wasn't a natural forward. He was late in taking up the game. Secondly his football IQ wasn't that great. He would frustrate by taking up the wrong option. McStay has a natural football brain. In that way he is very similar to Mihocek. How the two work together is a complete unknown to me as both work to bring the other forwards into the game. What we don't possess is a multiple goal kicker in the side. That is both a positive and a negative. You rely on a single goal kicker, the opposition just negates that strength and the goals dry up. Both under Buckley and McRae we don't have that. As for the comments from Pies2016 about McStay being moved down back when he comes here, I can't see that happening. We recruited both Chris Mayne and Jeremy Howe as forwards when Ross Lyon was playing Mayne on the half back line and Paul Roos was doing the same with Howe at Melbourne. McStay started as a backman and was moved into the forward line where he was a success. Rarely with a late 20's footballer can you change his position on the field. Leigh Brown was recruited as a backman then switched into the forward line by Malthouse. Buckley did the same with Mihocek. McRae won't move Mihocek back into the backline to play against the tall forwards because it hasn't worked whenever Mihocek has be shifted down back. Neither would it work with McStay in my opinion.

[stui magpie]

It is a good tool, I looked at career as Cox has played all except this year as a key forward back up ruck, the same role you are suggesting for McStay.

This season is skewed as Cox has played much more time in the ruck and less key forward. Unless McStay has photos of Leppa with one of swoops goats or we intend to play him at FB, I don't get why we would be actively pursuing someone (and offering long contracts on big coin) to someone who is a journeyman 3rd tall forward at best.

Use that tool, as a key forward he rates behind not only Cox but Checkers and Cameron as well as a KPF.

[Uncle Jack]

I'd like to see the Pies keep Grundy, De Goey and Henry and bring in Taranto.We still need enough movement out or delisting to cover at least 3 draft picks and then the talk is that McStay and Bobby Hill are on the way. I don't see how we can make that work- looks to be at least 6 delistings/out-trades necessary. Who gets dropped off the list to make that space?

[LaurieHolden]

I'd like to see the Pies keep Grundy, De Goey and Henry and bring in Taranto.We still need enough movement out or delisting to cover at least 3 draft picks and then the talk is that McStay and Bobby Hill are on the way. I don't see how we can make that work- looks to be at least 6 delistings/out-trades necessary. Who gets dropped off the list to make that space?

If Henry wants out, there's every chance of not coming to terms that will see him go into the draft. Wright will no dount look to get a competitve tender going for his services, even if it it is inevitable he ends up at Geelong with his brother. I don't think either parties want to see that happen.
While his raw talent is undisputed, if a player doesn't want to be part of this McRae juggernaut, then so be it.

If, and if it turns out all 3 of Hill, McStay and maybe Tarranto are coming our way, we might be in need of some draft point currency.
At the end of the day, competition for spots going into 2023 is a healthy thing.

Now, back to the replay.

[Pep]

I saw Jed Anderson from the Roos has been let go...

28yrs, 179cm, 81kg

This years season ave's:
Disposals: 22 - Above Ave
Kicks: 11.1 - Above Ave
Handballs: 10.9 - Above Ave
Marks: 4 - Above Ave
Tackles: 4.1 - Above Ave
Total Clearances: 3.6 - Above Ave

Worth a look? Could he have a Lipinski like affect for the pies next year?

[lazzadesilva]

While his raw talent is undisputed, if a player doesn't want to be part of this McRae juggernaut, then so be it.

Totally agree. Sick of hearing about players wanting to leaves team that is soaring towards success. Dumb as bats

[stui magpie]

The Suns finally seem to be stabilising and moving up the ladder, several young players signing on, but Rankine is supposed to be asking for a trade to the Crwos after being offered $4M over 5 years.

What 22 year old wouldn't jump on that? Every game you play you could get a career ending injury. Patrick Bines springs to mind https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-ne ... 08d5ced812

Every player would be in different situations. Taking less money to stay at successful club is a luxury that not all can afford. Guys like Checkers and Johnson who spent their early 20's on shit money outside the system would be forgiven for wanting to cash in later in their careers as much as they can.

If Henry wants out, let him go but get a good reward in exchange

[Mr Miyagi]

Well we’re talking with Taranto