Russian invasion of Ukraine

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think positive
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Post by think positive »

pietillidie wrote:The scenes out today were a horror show. Primitive psychopath.
what to do?
my hubby and the old guy next doot to my beach house both think that the Ukraine should do a France, let them in and then slowley take it back. Jezza had a reasonable idea, kinda like Korea, split it in half. i guess thats ok if your on the side you want to be on

for me, just kill the bastard.
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Post by Jezza »

^ Not my idea, TP. According to some intelligence agencies, they think Putin wants to split it in half.

If Ukraine is in a weakened position at the negotiation table, they may agree to relinquish it to save any further cost and damage if Russia stops attacking them.

I wouldn't be surprised at the end of this if Crimea and Eastern Ukraine is officially recognised as being a part of the Russian Federation.
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Post by stui magpie »

Looks like Putin is withdrawing his troops back to the eastern fringe after destroying large parts of the country. Ukraine is forcing them back.

Buildings destroyed, people killed, huge numbers fleeing the country as refugees. WTF for? Some old madmans twisted dreams?

The Ukraine President has done a great job, the only thing I'd give Putin is a bullet in the head. While they've got them backing up I hope they don't agree to partition the country or give up any disputed lands but try to push the cnuts right out of the country.

If they need to concede those parts that have been in dispute for the past 8 years, only do it if Russia agrees to pay to rebuild all that they've destroyed.

I like Zelenskyy's offer of a referendum on the country becoming a neutral state if Russia pulls out, but Russia's arms seem to have been exposed as outdated, so provided Putin doesn't go nuclear the modern arms being gifted to the Ukraine is winning.

Interesting to read Australia is sending some Bushmaster armoured vehicles over. I didn't realise we made them here and sold them to multiple other countries, they must go OK because Zelenskyy specifically asked for some.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
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Post by pietillidie »

Just to add to the violence of it all:
Ukraine’s economy is on course to contract by almost half this year as the Russian invasion and the impact of a “deep humanitarian crisis” takes its toll, the World Bank has said.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... k-forecast
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Post by stui magpie »

Anybody got a read on where this is going or how it ends?

Millions of people displaced, hundreds if not thousands killed, towns and cities razed for no justifiable reason. It's just SFU.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
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Post by pietillidie »

^I was just thinking that it could be there are no answers beyond a pitiful clinging to delusions of self-importance as Russia loses its mystique and global villain role, becoming nothing but a maligned backward peasant outpost in the shadows of Europe and China, which keep going from strength-to-strength. The rise of green energy only hastens the decline.

Putin is increasingly cutting a pathetic, cowardly figure who has gone the way of Trump, and like that flagging geriatric loser is lashing out with violent bullying to demonstrate he's still significant.

So, I reckon it's purely an effort to maintain influence and control over a neighbour and region that's sick of the bastard. Crimea wasn't enough because no one cared, basically saying take it and eff off. So the declining loser needs to insinuate himself still further into Europe. Indeed, becoming entangled in conflict has always been his MO for convincing himself he's important.

Putin: "Look at me, leader of the Great Russian Empire. Don't forget the Cold War. I'm still important."

World: "Go eff yourself, deluded failed thug from another century. And take your fossil fuels and shove them up your ar$e. Oh, and you'll be paying for everything you break."

Of course, that doesn't send the bastard back over the border, and it makes him dangerous and unpredictable. It also doesn’t free Ukraine. But it does increase the likelihood of internal Russian dissatisfaction and has made NATO expansion a foregone conclusion.

That said, the news today is that Ukraine is bracing itself for a renewed assault as Russia amasses more troops, so the scumbag isn't going away in a hurry. The delusion is strong in this one.
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Post by David »

Yeah, I follow this every day in the hope of some wind-down in conflict or process towards a ceasefire or Russian withdrawal. But there seems to be no end in sight.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
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Post by swoop42 »

swoop42 wrote:
Wokko wrote:As far as I know Diesel electric subs are quieter than nuclear and a real pain in the arse for the Americans.

In 2003 war games a Collins class sub 'sunk' a US Carrier and 2 Nuclear attack subs.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/ ... 93693.html
I actually remember that funnily enough.

I guess the real plus of a nuclear sub is that it can stay at sea in a time if war for as long as the provisions to keep the sailors alive last.

The funny thing about a lot of this expensive hardware is that if a war breaks out between super powers then most of it will be destroyed pretty easily by modern missile delivery systems.

Sitting in a tank
or aircraft carrier off the coast is fine when your invading Iraq but try doing that if Russia or China was the enemy.
I posted that back in 2016 and I believe that this current conflict is perfectly demonstrating that in modern warfare between two superpowers (or in the case of Ukraine one merely being supplied with some of the weapons of a superpower) that big ticketed and expensive weapons of war like tanks are extremely vulnerable now to just a single soldier armed with a shoulder launched javelin missile.

In reality the experience of the Russian army in this conflict is still a fortunate one and for a second time they can be thankful Ukraine doesn't have the capability to destroy a long convey of Russian military hardware form the air.

It should be a wake up call to the West also and demonstrate that a modern war between two superpowers wont have a front line like we associate with WW2 and your supply lines will be under threat a very long way from any active conflict thanks to modern missile technology and aircraft while those billion dollar battleships sitting off the coast with their sophisticated defensive systems could in reality be taken out of action if your enemy is prepared to simply detonate a tactical nuclear weapon within it's vicinity.
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Post by David »

"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
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Post by pietillidie »

^No one is going to parse it to that precision, though, not least because the wanton killing and destruction that dwarfs those considerations is consciously designed to thwart Ukrainian efforts to reform and move beyond the ugly, soul-destroying authoritarianism and corruption championed by Putin. Escaping the Russian authoritarian sphere and reforming in line with EU expectations is Ukraine's best hope of dealing with its high levels of corruption.

The most annoying thing here is not Ukraine's foibles, but the fact that our own scumbags are never ever held to account for their war crimes (so Iraq), undermining our efforts in genuine crises such as this one.
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Post by pietillidie »

Here you go, David; the NYTimes reporting on Ukraine's possible use of cluster munitions :

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/18/worl ... tions.html

Not that many tears will be shed for an invading army.
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Post by David »

"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
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Post by pietillidie »

^I don't disagree in theory, I'm just not sure if it can be done in any meaningful way in a clear invasion scenario.

That aside, is it time to escalate support given news today of a more concerted Russian front? Being cautious initially is one thing, but there is an argument that the degree of uncertainty needs to be dialled up considerably now, otherwise the ba$tard will press on in full confidence he will get what he wants regardless. That's neither a good outcome, nor a good signal to be sending generally.
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Post by David »

"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
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Post by stui magpie »

Relevant to how Russia operates.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-21/ ... /100999154
For most of World War II, Japan and the Soviet Union were not adversaries, signing a neutrality agreement in 1941.

But in August 1945, the Soviet Union saw an opportunity to attack a crippled and near-defeated Japan.

Moscow violated the neutrality pact and attacked Japanese positions, taking territory even after Tokyo announced its intention to surrender.

Four islands were seized and never returned: Etorofu, Kunashiri, Habomai and Shikotan.
I wasn't aware of any of this. Russia's chickens may be coming home to roost.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
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