Transgender athletes back on the agenda
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think positive
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stui magpie
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Yeah, saw the same thing, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-20/ ... /101166220
That's a pretty hardline approach. it will be interesting to see what other sports will do. I expect some to sit back and observe what reaction FINA gets before setting their own.
That's a pretty hardline approach. it will be interesting to see what other sports will do. I expect some to sit back and observe what reaction FINA gets before setting their own.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
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David
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I agree that it seems unduly harsh, but I think those getting exercised about this issue on both sides of the argument would do well to consider this:
Opponents of transgender participation like to make it out that sports are at imminent risk of being swamped by trans female athletes. But the fact is that there just aren't that many transgender people out there, and that, of those, only a tiny fraction have sufficient interest and skill to play sport at an elite level to even contemplate seeking it out, let alone be able to qualify for international competition. So I think it's unsurprising that this new rule is merely warding off a hypothetical scenario as opposed to an actually existing problem, and it seems inevitable (for the same reason) that this new "open" category will be a failure.Pearce confirmed there are currently no transgender women competing in elite levels of swimming.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
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think positive
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stui magpie
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This is only for FINA sanctioned events such as the Olympics, world titles etc, so it will still be up to each country to decide what they do at lower levels.
eg, US Trans Swimmer Lia Thomas won the College Championships but now won't be eligible to compete at the Olympics, so do they follow suit with similar rules at that level?
Should Australia allow a Trans Woman to compete at state and or National level knowing that if she wins she isn't eligible to compete at international level?
Also, swimming is a bit different to other sports in that you frequently see teenagers competing at international level but most swimmers are washed up before 30 whereas other sports people compete well into their 30's or beyond.
We'll see what other sports do I guess.
eg, US Trans Swimmer Lia Thomas won the College Championships but now won't be eligible to compete at the Olympics, so do they follow suit with similar rules at that level?
Should Australia allow a Trans Woman to compete at state and or National level knowing that if she wins she isn't eligible to compete at international level?
Also, swimming is a bit different to other sports in that you frequently see teenagers competing at international level but most swimmers are washed up before 30 whereas other sports people compete well into their 30's or beyond.
We'll see what other sports do I guess.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
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Skids
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Geez I've just seen the whole transgender thing in a different light.
I have a friend who, even though I've only known for around 2 years, I consider one of my best. We've never actually met 'face to face'.
I met Jack (not his real name) during my journey through eliminating alcohol from my life. I had joined an on-line sobriety group and was contributing to conversations with people trying to also quit alcohol.
The site operators contacted me, asking if I was interested in being a mentor for others.
I was a bit hesitant at first but thought I'd give it a go. I didn't realise how busy I was about to become!
I started getting requests from people and accepting most of them. I was conversing with about 6 or 7 people for a short period before I realised I couldn't cope with it. Without going into specifics, one lady I was talking to for a few weeks... and I thought she was going ok, had messaged me, I was busy at work and didn't get back to her for a few days. When I did get back in contact she told me about getting drunk and having a major traffic accident. I felt, not responsible... but disappointed and upset at not having replied to her earlier message... anyway I've digressed.
I did keep in contact Jack. He's around 30 and through our conversations we formed a strong bond. He is a martial artist, personal trainer and fitness freak, into health and fitness, I think he's on about 600 or 700 days alcohol free, I know I'm a hundred odd in front of him. We shared our fitness regimes, inspiring each other along the way. We have always maintained regular contact.
He has recently been an invaluable help on a serious personal issue I am dealing with. I honestly love this bloke, he's in San Francisco and I can't wait until 2024 when Kelly and myself visit the states to meet him and shake his hand.
Two weeks ago, Jack revealed to me that he is Transgender, a biological female. I was staggered when he told me. Nothing has changed, he has an opinion on this. He doesn't think trans women should be able to compete against biological women.
I tell you what, I wouldn't want to go three rounds with him.
I have a friend who, even though I've only known for around 2 years, I consider one of my best. We've never actually met 'face to face'.
I met Jack (not his real name) during my journey through eliminating alcohol from my life. I had joined an on-line sobriety group and was contributing to conversations with people trying to also quit alcohol.
The site operators contacted me, asking if I was interested in being a mentor for others.
I was a bit hesitant at first but thought I'd give it a go. I didn't realise how busy I was about to become!
I started getting requests from people and accepting most of them. I was conversing with about 6 or 7 people for a short period before I realised I couldn't cope with it. Without going into specifics, one lady I was talking to for a few weeks... and I thought she was going ok, had messaged me, I was busy at work and didn't get back to her for a few days. When I did get back in contact she told me about getting drunk and having a major traffic accident. I felt, not responsible... but disappointed and upset at not having replied to her earlier message... anyway I've digressed.
I did keep in contact Jack. He's around 30 and through our conversations we formed a strong bond. He is a martial artist, personal trainer and fitness freak, into health and fitness, I think he's on about 600 or 700 days alcohol free, I know I'm a hundred odd in front of him. We shared our fitness regimes, inspiring each other along the way. We have always maintained regular contact.
He has recently been an invaluable help on a serious personal issue I am dealing with. I honestly love this bloke, he's in San Francisco and I can't wait until 2024 when Kelly and myself visit the states to meet him and shake his hand.
Two weeks ago, Jack revealed to me that he is Transgender, a biological female. I was staggered when he told me. Nothing has changed, he has an opinion on this. He doesn't think trans women should be able to compete against biological women.
I tell you what, I wouldn't want to go three rounds with him.
Don't count the days, make the days count.
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think positive
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the speaker did mention a new special catagory for them, thats fair,stui magpie wrote:This is only for FINA sanctioned events such as the Olympics, world titles etc, so it will still be up to each country to decide what they do at lower levels.
eg, US Trans Swimmer Lia Thomas won the College Championships but now won't be eligible to compete at the Olympics, so do they follow suit with similar rules at that level?
Should Australia allow a Trans Woman to compete at state and or National level knowing that if she wins she isn't eligible to compete at international level?
Also, swimming is a bit different to other sports in that you frequently see teenagers competing at international level but most swimmers are washed up before 30 whereas other sports people compete well into their 30's or beyond.
We'll see what other sports do I guess.
i reckon i speak for the majority when i say i will never ever take a trans sports person seriously, its not right, its not fair
awesome skids, good for you both, hope you get to meet
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
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stui magpie
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Yeah, good work Skids.
I'm trying to become more educated on the issues, but the whole thing confuses the hell out of me. What happens with Non-Binary people? If a female athlete identifies as Non Binary like Vecchio did in the AFLW they are allowed to choose which competition they play in, mens or womens. What happens if a male AFL player comes out as Non Binary? They can't choose to play AFLW.
It may not be a big issue now as the number of Trans Women athletes are as David said, relatively small, but as acceptance grows you'd expect more people to come out earlier, in which case the idea of a 3rd tier of competition may not be as dumb as it sounds.
I've got a lot to learn about this stuff.
I'm trying to become more educated on the issues, but the whole thing confuses the hell out of me. What happens with Non-Binary people? If a female athlete identifies as Non Binary like Vecchio did in the AFLW they are allowed to choose which competition they play in, mens or womens. What happens if a male AFL player comes out as Non Binary? They can't choose to play AFLW.
It may not be a big issue now as the number of Trans Women athletes are as David said, relatively small, but as acceptance grows you'd expect more people to come out earlier, in which case the idea of a 3rd tier of competition may not be as dumb as it sounds.
I've got a lot to learn about this stuff.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
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think positive
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stui magpie
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It might be a fad but I don't think so. I think Pandoras Box has been opened and all the people who feel like they don't fit in, for whatever reason, now have a framework to fit into.
Like I said, I have a lot to learn.
Like I said, I have a lot to learn.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
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What'sinaname
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think positive
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David
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It's pretty ignorant and dismissive about transgender identity (because of course if being a man or a woman didn't mean anything then it would hardly be a source of anguish for anyone experiencing gender dysphoria, and nor would it be an issue that conservatives feel they need to direct their venom towards), but I suppose par for the course for an American right-wing joke page.
For anyone who's actually struggling to come up with a definition of "woman" in this brave new world, start by acknowledging the difference between sex (biological characteristics) and gender (cultural signification) and go from there. Off the top of my head, a good working definition might be "woman (n.): an adult female human; belonging to the female gender, corresponding to characteristics associated with the female sex"
(And if you think that sounds convoluted, please provide me with concise, unambiguous, non-circular definitions for other universally understood words such as "sky", "grass", "horse" and "country". No googling allowed!)
For anyone who's actually struggling to come up with a definition of "woman" in this brave new world, start by acknowledging the difference between sex (biological characteristics) and gender (cultural signification) and go from there. Off the top of my head, a good working definition might be "woman (n.): an adult female human; belonging to the female gender, corresponding to characteristics associated with the female sex"
(And if you think that sounds convoluted, please provide me with concise, unambiguous, non-circular definitions for other universally understood words such as "sky", "grass", "horse" and "country". No googling allowed!)
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What'sinaname
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