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pietillidie wrote:There's a bit of cultural cringe in that, though, What'sinaname. Do you know what that expression means? It means you're being too readily embarrassed by outsiders into blaming your own lad unnecessarily. It was a free kick on its merits all day long, every day of the week, and was universally believed to be so. Nothing else matters, which is fundamental to a professional fraternity of adjudication.
The missed free was a disgrace, no one is arguing with that and I'd be surprised if the AFL ticks this off as the correct decision.
I am pointing out what's contributing to it. If someone has a habit of collapsing into a tackle, and then is tackled high while not standing upright, there's a good chance the umpire will assume the player has collapsed into the tackle and contributed to the high contact.
This is what I'd like to see coached out of Ginnivan's game.
^That's the skill of umpiring and the AFL's problem to work through, not ours. McRae, himself a small player and perhaps more mindful than most of the risks of getting unnecessarily injured in the tackle, has discussed his instructions and understanding of the rules, and has had the umpires down to give guidance on this.
Here's an interesting thought. By way of contrast, consider that rugby players collapse in the tackle as a matter of proper technique to avoid head, neck and shoulder injuries. No one thinks they're soft or milking anything.
AnthonyC wrote:^ I thought he definitely went for a bounce and then slipped, rotten luck but the right call.
pietillidie wrote:^Howey rarely bounces. I could be wrong, though, so I'll take your word for it.
You were right, Anthony, good call. Just watched it again.
Not only was it holding the ball but we were lucky to not concede a 50m penalty when Murphy kicked the ball away.
Don’t agree with this view. The 50m for kicking the ball away only comes after the ump blows his second whistle. The first whistle (to call the free) was a little delayed and as a result the kicking away by Murphy was almost simultaneous. See 30 of these a game which aren’t paid (and to the letter of the law probably should be) - that’s just the way it’s interpreted. Umps will only pay it if it’s obvious time wasting.
Perhaps someone can enlighten me but does the coaches box or the club have access to all the audio to and from the umpires?
It seems to me that there are patterns in the decisions that are made - Too many results seem to be dictated by umpire calls - it comes close to staging a game rather than finding out what team should have won.
Last edited by glasseyevfx on Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We shall set our course by the stars and not ships that pass in the night
Meredith1965 wrote:Not strictly about umpiring, so much as the rules themselve, but I would like to see the AFL ban the sling tackle, where a player is thrown sideways to the ground.
The rule used to be that you could retard a player with a tackle, now it seems to be that you can slam tackle. The game is hard enough on bodies without the need for extra damage being inflicted. It is a physical game, but injury is not the point of it.
Haven’t there been occasions where a player slam tackling has been reported?
I term the current Collingwood attack based strategy “Unceasing Waves” like on a stormy and windy day with rough seas. A Perfect Storm
pietillidie wrote:
You were right, Anthony, good call. Just watched it again.
Not only was it holding the ball but we were lucky to not concede a 50m penalty when Murphy kicked the ball away.
Don’t agree with this view. The 50m for kicking the ball away only comes after the ump blows his second whistle. The first whistle (to call the free) was a little delayed and as a result the kicking away by Murphy was almost simultaneous. See 30 of these a game which aren’t paid (and to the letter of the law probably should be) - that’s just the way it’s interpreted. Umps will only pay it if it’s obvious time wasting.
Agreed. They might have paid the 50 against him in the past, but haven't been paying that one all year.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
pietillidie wrote: In fact, it crossed my mind a few times how impressive our sportsmanship was during the game. Little things like helping opponents up, checking they weren't hurt, comforting them after the game. Just little signals of decency, which I reckon shows a deep confidence.
Yup. A player who always does this is Mihocek. Very decent thing to do.
I term the current Collingwood attack based strategy “Unceasing Waves” like on a stormy and windy day with rough seas. A Perfect Storm
pietillidie wrote: In fact, it crossed my mind a few times how impressive our sportsmanship was during the game. Little things like helping opponents up, checking they weren't hurt, comforting them after the game. Just little signals of decency, which I reckon shows a deep confidence.
Yup. A player who always does this is Mihocek. Very decent thing to do.
The bloke is just quality to the core. gets the most out of himself and those around him, pushes through the pain barrier, plays for the team first and has incredible sportsmanship. Must be a joy to have him at the club.
Meredith1965 wrote:Not strictly about umpiring, so much as the rules themselve, but I would like to see the AFL ban the sling tackle, where a player is thrown sideways to the ground.
The rule used to be that you could retard a player with a tackle, now it seems to be that you can slam tackle. The game is hard enough on bodies without the need for extra damage being inflicted. It is a physical game, but injury is not the point of it.
Haven’t there been occasions where a player slam tackling has been reported?
I think only when the head hits the ground. Which is like umpiring for consequence, rather than behaviour, and never a good idea. Adams’ concussion against North came from this “tearing” tackle motion but was apparently ok because it was caused by a knee, not the ground. It is a mess. Simply, a tackle should prevent the player from disposing of it in an upright position, not tear him to the ground. The game needs to be hard and physical, but it is no-one’s interest to make it deliberately injurious as this tactic does.
Please help. One of the most important facets of the game is to play the game with accordance to the rules to gain a free kick. Nothing wrong with this and it has been happening since year dot. So what exactly is Ginnivan doing wrong? Either he receives a free, the opposition receives a free or it’s play on. For example, isn’t this the intent of the tackler, to attract a free for holding the ball? So if Ginnivan is putting the onus on the tackler to execute a legal tackle, while not breaking a rule in the process, what is he doing wrong? Isn’t this what players do in other free kick situations? Gain a free kick? Surely on priority, contact with the head is relatively more dangerous than a push in the back? So what is the issue here other than requiring the tackler to do it right?
Execute the tackle right and surely that’s a free kick to them if the tackled player is in possession of the ball or gets rid of it illegally? How about keeping it simple and applying the rules correctly for all players? If both players bend their knees, wouldn’t it make that particular aspect irrelevant to the action of applying the tackle correctly?
I term the current Collingwood attack based strategy “Unceasing Waves” like on a stormy and windy day with rough seas. A Perfect Storm
One of the most important facets is to get the football. If you have it, you try to maintain possession or give the ball legally to a team mate. Not to try and draw a free kick from the opponent.
