WTF is happenning with Frase, all guns blazing against the saints preseason and set for a huge start to the season and now all reports indicate he is really struggling? I love the man and hope he finds his feet quickly as he has never filled his enormous potential but I still think this year will be his year.
Without seeing the game I can only go on reports but I get the feeling people are generally getting concerned about Trav, god he has to deliver for us otherwise its 0/3 and back to the drawing board. As for Rhyce, pretty much a known quantity now re: disposal under pressure, would love to see the 2003 Rhyce Shaw on the field, thought he was great back then.
But cripes, I know Mickey is disappointed but it is still a good result for the development of the club and I think a win against the Tiges next week means 2/3 with a loss to eagles, great start to year. However the Tiges will be as hungry as they have ever been, being 0/2 with a star studded list of young players and huge expectations from the supporter base, that game is now taking on huge proportions with the loser facing I fear a huge supporter backlash.
Post match - Pies down to Weagles. All comments.
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sq3
- Posts: 3668
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Very good effort and let's us know exactly where we are.
It's good to see that MM will drop some senior players who are letting the team down with poor skills.
Lica must be dropped - he is on the way down - skills errors killed us.
Wakes and Presti are way too slow for the youger, faster, stronger forwards of today - we can expect Brown, Reid, Cox and JA to be the replacements.
Dutchie, Bux and Dids would have made a huge difference.
Stretch stood up and if he keeps doing that Josh can play far more down forward.
Pebbles and Magic were exceptional and on fire.
Harry, Max and Heater were great as well and the future of our defense.
The one thing that we have now is the making of some great defenders and attackers and in this years draft - every round - we must take the best fast and hard at the ball midfielders - every round.
If we can do that the Pies will be set for a long while to come.
It's good to see that MM will drop some senior players who are letting the team down with poor skills.
Lica must be dropped - he is on the way down - skills errors killed us.
Wakes and Presti are way too slow for the youger, faster, stronger forwards of today - we can expect Brown, Reid, Cox and JA to be the replacements.
Dutchie, Bux and Dids would have made a huge difference.
Stretch stood up and if he keeps doing that Josh can play far more down forward.
Pebbles and Magic were exceptional and on fire.
Harry, Max and Heater were great as well and the future of our defense.
The one thing that we have now is the making of some great defenders and attackers and in this years draft - every round - we must take the best fast and hard at the ball midfielders - every round.
If we can do that the Pies will be set for a long while to come.
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magpie57
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A gutsy effort by a team that are quite obviously way down on talent, especially when compared to their opposition last night.It just goes to show what you can achieve if you make the ball your target and go at it.Leon Davis epitomised this with his eyes for the ball only style approach.
One wonders if the result may have been different if Collingwood had used the centre corridor more often,instead of repeatedly going wide.
Once again our skill errors cost us.Sooner or later someone has to be accountable for our chronic lack of basic skills.If the players concerned continually re-offend, then there is no place for them at this level,surely seven years is long enough for any coach to teach someone basic football skills.There are really only two reasons for someone not having these skills,they are either incapable of learning them or they are not being taught correctly.Either way something has to change, it is becoming a huge concern as it has been going on for too long.
If Pendlebury can settle down and not try to be so cute and just get on and do the business, then I've no doubt he will be the next Chris Judd.
He has got rare ability and just needs to have confidence and belief in himself.
Commentators were saying on the radio last night that this Collingwood team were certainally not the best that they have seen, but they threw everything they had at it and nearly got away with the game.Take Judd and Kerr out of the game and we would have won-there is no substitute for class.
I say bring on the kids and let them show us what they have got, they could not be any worse than the skill levels shown by more experienced players last night.
Really if there is any talent amongst our new recruits,then players like Ryan Lonie who was absent last night for whatever reason should not be able to get another game with Collingwood.
One wonders if the result may have been different if Collingwood had used the centre corridor more often,instead of repeatedly going wide.
Once again our skill errors cost us.Sooner or later someone has to be accountable for our chronic lack of basic skills.If the players concerned continually re-offend, then there is no place for them at this level,surely seven years is long enough for any coach to teach someone basic football skills.There are really only two reasons for someone not having these skills,they are either incapable of learning them or they are not being taught correctly.Either way something has to change, it is becoming a huge concern as it has been going on for too long.
If Pendlebury can settle down and not try to be so cute and just get on and do the business, then I've no doubt he will be the next Chris Judd.
He has got rare ability and just needs to have confidence and belief in himself.
Commentators were saying on the radio last night that this Collingwood team were certainally not the best that they have seen, but they threw everything they had at it and nearly got away with the game.Take Judd and Kerr out of the game and we would have won-there is no substitute for class.
I say bring on the kids and let them show us what they have got, they could not be any worse than the skill levels shown by more experienced players last night.
Really if there is any talent amongst our new recruits,then players like Ryan Lonie who was absent last night for whatever reason should not be able to get another game with Collingwood.
Last edited by magpie57 on Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
one-eyed pie and proud of it
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~Madness~
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DaVe86, nice analysis...
On some good things - I felt we went through the middle a lot more last night than we have in the past. It really brought the big fella, Rocca, into it. Once it comes through there, there is a much wider scope to work with and the crumbers have much easier job.
We wasted a lot of kicks, but in saying that, half the reason is because of the pressure they were under when kicking. West Coast are the real deal, so there IS going to be pressure when kicking, but a lot were sprayed or kicked with eyes closed. I'm tipping they practice those this week...
I find it amusing that some people blame single things for a loss. You can't pin point blame on anyONE in these circumstances. Ridiculous!!! They were beaten by a better team on the night. They had that little bit extra at the end than we did. There were mistakes by everyone out there, to blame one person, or the mid or the backline is just being stupid!
My best players were Rocca, Heater, Pendles and even Swanny went ok, Maxy held Hunter to NIL goals.
On some good things - I felt we went through the middle a lot more last night than we have in the past. It really brought the big fella, Rocca, into it. Once it comes through there, there is a much wider scope to work with and the crumbers have much easier job.
We wasted a lot of kicks, but in saying that, half the reason is because of the pressure they were under when kicking. West Coast are the real deal, so there IS going to be pressure when kicking, but a lot were sprayed or kicked with eyes closed. I'm tipping they practice those this week...
I find it amusing that some people blame single things for a loss. You can't pin point blame on anyONE in these circumstances. Ridiculous!!! They were beaten by a better team on the night. They had that little bit extra at the end than we did. There were mistakes by everyone out there, to blame one person, or the mid or the backline is just being stupid!
My best players were Rocca, Heater, Pendles and even Swanny went ok, Maxy held Hunter to NIL goals.
"whaaa whaaaaaa!
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noddy,
- Posts: 1387
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i reckon we're in reasonable shape. we're 1:1 with our hardest road trip behind us. emerging players like heath and maxwell continuing to improve. new guys like pendlebury and thomas showing they'll be great players and it sounds like we'll get to see some of the brand new young guns over the next weeks.
the improvement that we need was never going to come from the guys that have already been there 6-7+ years. if we've got it right then the players that everyone here always complains about will just get pushed out of the team for good by the new crew that's coming though. this should start happening through this season.
i kind of like what i've seen of medhurst. if he snags 1-2 goals and sets up a couple each week then he's a good pick up. he's different and he's creative.
trav - yeah, wasn't good but you leave him there. a young guy playing CHF at subi against the weagles. don't hang him for that.
it's clear that despite the good things going for us, we've got one of the weakest midfields. we look like we are on the way to sorting that out.
we should smash the tigers.
the improvement that we need was never going to come from the guys that have already been there 6-7+ years. if we've got it right then the players that everyone here always complains about will just get pushed out of the team for good by the new crew that's coming though. this should start happening through this season.
i kind of like what i've seen of medhurst. if he snags 1-2 goals and sets up a couple each week then he's a good pick up. he's different and he's creative.
trav - yeah, wasn't good but you leave him there. a young guy playing CHF at subi against the weagles. don't hang him for that.
it's clear that despite the good things going for us, we've got one of the weakest midfields. we look like we are on the way to sorting that out.
we should smash the tigers.
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Cuthbert Collingwood
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skill errors.....sure they cost us
the umpires....i really think they cost a little more. hard to play 22 against 25. wirrpunda out of bounds goal for one a shocker, and there were many, many more.
gusty effort, good signs. pencilled in as a loss anyway, but didn't cost us any percentage. time to skin some tiges.
the umpires....i really think they cost a little more. hard to play 22 against 25. wirrpunda out of bounds goal for one a shocker, and there were many, many more.
gusty effort, good signs. pencilled in as a loss anyway, but didn't cost us any percentage. time to skin some tiges.
McRae for Governor-General!
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Cannibal
- Posts: 2434
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I cannot agree with those who are claiming an "honourable" loss. First of all, there's no such thing and, secondly, we were only as close as we were because, as I said pre-match, it's a standard tactic to try to close a game against the Weagles down and hope you might just scrape a win. Equally, I cannot agree with those who say we'd have done better if we'd had the four blokes who were out (5, if you count Lonie) in the side. All I will say to that is if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. West Coast's losses were much more significant than ours: Cox, Cousins and Fletcher were huge losses. If anything, we got a bit lucky to face an undermanned Weagles side.
For example, despite Fraser seemingly being dreadfully out-of-sorts, he and Richards had 19 and 22 hitouts respectively against Seaby, who had 24. It's hard not to think that Cox would have reversed that and given the Weagles far more of the ball in the centre.
I do agree with those who query our skills; basic skills at that. After 7 years as coach, if we're STILL making stupid basic football handling errors, then MM must take the blame instead of blasting the players as he has done today. What has he been teaching them for the last 7 years, then? It's not as if this is news to supporters! Unfortunately, it's a couple of deadset daddy's favourites who are the worst offenders: Licca and O'Bree. Rhyce Shaw can join this infamous list.
This week's selections are now, because of MM's outburst, a clear litmus test of his own coaching and selection policies. If he truly believes those handling errors cost us the game, then he has no choice but to dump those responsible and bring in players who can handle the ball properly. But will he have the balls to drop Licca and O'Bree for it?
It's very, very clear that our season is already on the line. Friday night vs Richmond is going to be a litmus test for the whole club. We MUST win that game. Lose and our season will be shot to hell. And, right now, whilst I believe we're better than them, I'm not so sure we'll beat them.
It largely comes down to our gameplan. Grant Thomas has said in today's Age that clubs have distinct playing styles. This is what he said about the Collingwood "brand of football":
For some years now, we supporters have been moaning about our gameplan. Some players, even Buckley himself, have publicly exonerated MM and blamed the players themselves for not executing the "correct" gameplan. Frankly, if the other coaches in the competition recognise Collingwood's style as one imposed by its coach, how much longer will this insanity prevail? We KNOW that, if we go straight down the guts to the forwards, we will kick loads of goals and win more games of football. Will we do this against Richmond or will we piss-fart around as usual?
We scraped home against North last week only because we went direct in the last quarter. At times last night, we went direct and totally had the Weagles on the back foot. I honestly do not know why we then reverted to the blundering around unless, and only unless, the coach sent out the runner to stop the guys playing like that and to stick to the p-f'ing around gameplan which he so obviously prefers. If we p-f around against Richmond, we'll lose.
Loved the performance of Pendles last night. A handful of mistakes, sure, but he shows wonderful instincts and can usually deliver the ball accurately. 21 kicks, 10 marks, A very nice performance. Rocca did exceptionally well on a small number of possessions. 8 kicks, 7 marks and 4 goals 1 behind. Contrary to most people, I thought Cloke did well around the ground as a more mobile CHF than we've been used to. 14 kicks, 8 marks. Not an impressive performance but I couldn't help thinking that if it had been Rocca at CHF who'd tallied those stats, most people would be raving about his presentation. Heath Shaw was marvellous again in the backline. 27 possessions, 7 marks (many of them in contested situations) and as brave as they come. I thought Dane Swan also did very well, mainly across halfback but running forward when he could. 22 possessions, 7 marks. Maxy played well in defence, too. Just as well; Jimmy had a dreadful off night but, sad to say, I've seen it coming. More and more frequently, mistakes have been creeping into his game.
However, the reality of last night is that we were murdered in possession by a very, very talented side. 413 possessions to 301. 106 marks to 99. And this without Cox to give them first use of the ball. Say what you like about Kerr off-field but he's a brilliant footballer. 36 possessions and Judd added 29. With Stenglein adding 27, as did Braun, it's clear where we got clobbered. In the midfield. West Coast are not unbeatable. But they will not be beaten by sides who try to close them down, no matter how close that gameplan so often looks like succeeding. In the end, they just have too much talent to burn. Better taking your chances on a shootout.
For example, despite Fraser seemingly being dreadfully out-of-sorts, he and Richards had 19 and 22 hitouts respectively against Seaby, who had 24. It's hard not to think that Cox would have reversed that and given the Weagles far more of the ball in the centre.
I do agree with those who query our skills; basic skills at that. After 7 years as coach, if we're STILL making stupid basic football handling errors, then MM must take the blame instead of blasting the players as he has done today. What has he been teaching them for the last 7 years, then? It's not as if this is news to supporters! Unfortunately, it's a couple of deadset daddy's favourites who are the worst offenders: Licca and O'Bree. Rhyce Shaw can join this infamous list.
This week's selections are now, because of MM's outburst, a clear litmus test of his own coaching and selection policies. If he truly believes those handling errors cost us the game, then he has no choice but to dump those responsible and bring in players who can handle the ball properly. But will he have the balls to drop Licca and O'Bree for it?
It's very, very clear that our season is already on the line. Friday night vs Richmond is going to be a litmus test for the whole club. We MUST win that game. Lose and our season will be shot to hell. And, right now, whilst I believe we're better than them, I'm not so sure we'll beat them.
It largely comes down to our gameplan. Grant Thomas has said in today's Age that clubs have distinct playing styles. This is what he said about the Collingwood "brand of football":
[my emphasis]The Collingwood plan focuses on its midfield accountability. Players are designated specific roles against opposition game-breakers (usually midfielders). When confronted with a flood, they are very patient, entering their forward 50 and working hard on blocking for players to lead into space. Playing wide rather than in the corridor is the preferred style.
For some years now, we supporters have been moaning about our gameplan. Some players, even Buckley himself, have publicly exonerated MM and blamed the players themselves for not executing the "correct" gameplan. Frankly, if the other coaches in the competition recognise Collingwood's style as one imposed by its coach, how much longer will this insanity prevail? We KNOW that, if we go straight down the guts to the forwards, we will kick loads of goals and win more games of football. Will we do this against Richmond or will we piss-fart around as usual?
We scraped home against North last week only because we went direct in the last quarter. At times last night, we went direct and totally had the Weagles on the back foot. I honestly do not know why we then reverted to the blundering around unless, and only unless, the coach sent out the runner to stop the guys playing like that and to stick to the p-f'ing around gameplan which he so obviously prefers. If we p-f around against Richmond, we'll lose.
Loved the performance of Pendles last night. A handful of mistakes, sure, but he shows wonderful instincts and can usually deliver the ball accurately. 21 kicks, 10 marks, A very nice performance. Rocca did exceptionally well on a small number of possessions. 8 kicks, 7 marks and 4 goals 1 behind. Contrary to most people, I thought Cloke did well around the ground as a more mobile CHF than we've been used to. 14 kicks, 8 marks. Not an impressive performance but I couldn't help thinking that if it had been Rocca at CHF who'd tallied those stats, most people would be raving about his presentation. Heath Shaw was marvellous again in the backline. 27 possessions, 7 marks (many of them in contested situations) and as brave as they come. I thought Dane Swan also did very well, mainly across halfback but running forward when he could. 22 possessions, 7 marks. Maxy played well in defence, too. Just as well; Jimmy had a dreadful off night but, sad to say, I've seen it coming. More and more frequently, mistakes have been creeping into his game.
However, the reality of last night is that we were murdered in possession by a very, very talented side. 413 possessions to 301. 106 marks to 99. And this without Cox to give them first use of the ball. Say what you like about Kerr off-field but he's a brilliant footballer. 36 possessions and Judd added 29. With Stenglein adding 27, as did Braun, it's clear where we got clobbered. In the midfield. West Coast are not unbeatable. But they will not be beaten by sides who try to close them down, no matter how close that gameplan so often looks like succeeding. In the end, they just have too much talent to burn. Better taking your chances on a shootout.
Glory Glory Good Old Collingwood, Glory Glory Hallelujah,
Collingwood's The Greatest Team The World Has Ever Seen,
And The 'Pies Go Marching On (in Black and White Stripes Forever!).
Collingwood's The Greatest Team The World Has Ever Seen,
And The 'Pies Go Marching On (in Black and White Stripes Forever!).
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PeterWH
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From the game that I saw last night it was WCE PLUS two umpires playing our guys.At 1/2 time the frees were 17 to 8 in favour of WCE,the unpiring was inconsistent and it appeared that there was almost favouritism being shown against the PIES.
Our guys played extremely well against the odds,and the 50 meter penalty in the last quarter was just what that WE umpire was looking for to give the WECE the win otherwise it would have been the PIES come home 2 ZIP and not 1.1
Our guys played extremely well against the odds,and the 50 meter penalty in the last quarter was just what that WE umpire was looking for to give the WECE the win otherwise it would have been the PIES come home 2 ZIP and not 1.1
PeterWH VK2FPHR Membership No.248693
PIES FOR PREMIERS.... YEAH WHEN!!!
We missed 2002 to 2009,BUT 2010 was OUR YEAR.. WATCH OUT 2018 here we come.We hope!!
PIES FOR PREMIERS.... YEAH WHEN!!!
We missed 2002 to 2009,BUT 2010 was OUR YEAR.. WATCH OUT 2018 here we come.We hope!!
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Usurper
- Posts: 824
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:54 pm
Read a few comments regarding the umpiring and free kicks, and Im compelled to put in my 0.02.
When up against someone more talented than you, often you end up resorting to extreme/desperate tactics to stop them. That's what I most frequently saw happen against the Eagles - pies unable to match their player, and desperately trying something to stop them, and subsequently giving the free away.
Not every time, but many times. So what's better I suppose - a clearance by the opposition, or a free kick to them? Any difference? Perhaps only that there's some chance they might not get the free and you can have some impact.
When up against someone more talented than you, often you end up resorting to extreme/desperate tactics to stop them. That's what I most frequently saw happen against the Eagles - pies unable to match their player, and desperately trying something to stop them, and subsequently giving the free away.
Not every time, but many times. So what's better I suppose - a clearance by the opposition, or a free kick to them? Any difference? Perhaps only that there's some chance they might not get the free and you can have some impact.
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collingwoodjoe
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:29 pm
couple of points:
Fraser was injured early, played on honorably but was restricted, a hip they reckon.
Johno was injured also, played on and played well but could have done better with two legs (even if he does only use the one for kicking!)
Lonie was injured (groin apperantly) and replaced in the side by nicholls who had four touches and gave away about as many free kicks, I like the kid and I am glad he has had this chance to watch Kerr, a similar sized midfeilder weave some magic, now our Danny can go back to Willi and aim to play like that, but Lonie would have been handy for his ability to tag, his long accurate kicking and the fact that he hangs off the contest, yep, that would have actually helped us the other night when half our team got drawn into the scrums while half a dozen eagle waited outside for Judd or Kerr to feed it out.
So we where basically missing Bucks, Didak, Holland, Lonie and after quater time the full potential of Johnson and Fraser from the game.
We got within 2 goals and it could easilly have been closer if a few of the young kids could have managed to execute thier ambitious ideas, in time that will change and thier discipline and workrate will alow them to execute more often.
I saw both our games this weekend (Willi in person and WC on the TV) and I think there is a lot to be happy about for the future.
Looking forward to seeing our Cox pull on the black and white in the very near future for a start!
GO PIES!
Fraser was injured early, played on honorably but was restricted, a hip they reckon.
Johno was injured also, played on and played well but could have done better with two legs (even if he does only use the one for kicking!)
Lonie was injured (groin apperantly) and replaced in the side by nicholls who had four touches and gave away about as many free kicks, I like the kid and I am glad he has had this chance to watch Kerr, a similar sized midfeilder weave some magic, now our Danny can go back to Willi and aim to play like that, but Lonie would have been handy for his ability to tag, his long accurate kicking and the fact that he hangs off the contest, yep, that would have actually helped us the other night when half our team got drawn into the scrums while half a dozen eagle waited outside for Judd or Kerr to feed it out.
So we where basically missing Bucks, Didak, Holland, Lonie and after quater time the full potential of Johnson and Fraser from the game.
We got within 2 goals and it could easilly have been closer if a few of the young kids could have managed to execute thier ambitious ideas, in time that will change and thier discipline and workrate will alow them to execute more often.
I saw both our games this weekend (Willi in person and WC on the TV) and I think there is a lot to be happy about for the future.
Looking forward to seeing our Cox pull on the black and white in the very near future for a start!
GO PIES!
go pies!
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stui magpie
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I'm not interested in honorable losses but I was very impressed with the effort put in by the boys. When you go in with that kind of intensity you are going to give away some frees but some of the ones given against us (and not given to us) were bloody ridiculous.
I still think we're one key forward short atm. We can't rely on playing Neon, Daisy or Medhurst from the square, they should be running past the contest getting crumbs. Either bring in Bryan to change with Guy off the bench and play Josh as a permanent forward or bring in Reid, Brown or Cox to play third tall forward at least until Bucks is back.
I still think we're one key forward short atm. We can't rely on playing Neon, Daisy or Medhurst from the square, they should be running past the contest getting crumbs. Either bring in Bryan to change with Guy off the bench and play Josh as a permanent forward or bring in Reid, Brown or Cox to play third tall forward at least until Bucks is back.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.