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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:31 pm
by Bob Sugar
swoop42 wrote:AN_Inkling wrote:
I find this interesting. There's a number of people who are less interested in Pickett because he's a "small forward", but are happy to look at players like Langford who seems to have played less midfield than Pickett has. Petracca and Laverde have also not played purely as mids. If Pickett is seen as a midfielder (impressed with his beep test at the combine, showing he has the endurance), he'll be picked as one. It doesn't matter that he's spent time forward as a junior, many of the other prospects are not yet pure mids either.
Laverde isn't a genuine midfielder at present and I'm not sure anyone on here has claimed him to be one.
Pickett is in the same boat though may have spent more time playing through that position.
If we want a pure mid then it's Weller or Ahern ahead of both Laverde and Pickett but I'm not convinced we'll go that way.
As I've stated previously I just don't think you use a top 5 pick on a small forward/midfielder.
Pick 5 will get us another high class key position prospect or the best tall midfield/flanker type after Petracca and Brayshaw.
To me this is the smarter play and you yourself have defended our recruiting of midgets in the past because we didn't have the picks required to snare the better prospects that also had height.
Pick 9 for Pickett would have been around the mark.
From what I've read the Pickett go home factor is huge, he'll slide to one of the WA clubs because of that.
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:09 pm
by swoop42
I thought I'd take a look at Collingwood's draft history with picks inside the top 30 since 2005.
2005:
2-*Thomas/medium forward/midfielder
5-Pendlebury/tall midfielder
21-*Stanley/medium flanker
23-*Cook/medium midfielder
2006:
8-Reid/tall key forward/defender
10-Brown/tall key defender
28-*Dawes/tall key forward
2007:
14(on traded for)-*Wood/ruckman
2008:
11-Sidebottom/small midfielder
29-*Beams/medium midfielder
2009:
14(on traded for)-*Jolly/ruckman
30-*Ball/medium midfielder
2010:
25(on traded for)-*Krakouer/small forward
25(on traded for)-*Ceglar/ruckman
2011:
25(on traded for)-Elliott/small forward
25(on traded for)-*Clarke/medium flanker
2012:
18-Grundy/ruckman
19-Kennedy/small midfielder
20-Broomhead/medium midfielder/flanker
2013:
6-Scharenberg/tall utility
10-Freeman/medium midfielder
2014:
5-
9-Moore/tall forward/defender
30-
*Players no longer at the club.
Personally if it came to it I wouldn't be against taking two key position players within the top 10 as it's been 8 years since we've taken a single key position tall within the top 30.
Conversely only Pendlebury and Scharenberg fit into the catergory of tall midfield prospects taken within the top 30 since 2005.
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:43 pm
by AN_Inkling
^^We do already have one this year. I agree that we could fit one more developing tall into our squad - probably means another gets pushed out soon - but I don't think it's something we need to actively chase. Taking two talls means we're waiting 3+ years before either of them realistically becomes anything. An optimistic view of our squad could see us challenging for top 4 again in 2016. If so, we'd be better off with a second year potentially elite mid than than two talls. In the end though, best available is always the best option. If you have imbalances they can be dealt with at the trade table.
swoop42 wrote:AN_Inkling wrote:
I find this interesting. There's a number of people who are less interested in Pickett because he's a "small forward", but are happy to look at players like Langford who seems to have played less midfield than Pickett has. Petracca and Laverde have also not played purely as mids. If Pickett is seen as a midfielder (impressed with his beep test at the combine, showing he has the endurance), he'll be picked as one. It doesn't matter that he's spent time forward as a junior, many of the other prospects are not yet pure mids either.
Laverde isn't a genuine midfielder at present and I'm not sure anyone on here has claimed him to be one.
Pickett is in the same boat though may have spent more time playing through that position.
If we want a pure mid then it's Weller or Ahern ahead of both Laverde and Pickett but I'm not convinced we'll go that way.
As I've stated previously I just don't think you use a top 5 pick on a small forward/midfielder.
Pick 5 will get us another high class key position prospect or the best tall midfield/flanker type after Petracca and Brayshaw.
To me this is the smarter play and you yourself have defended our recruiting of midgets in the past because we didn't have the picks required to snare the better prospects that also had height.
Pick 9 for Pickett would have been around the mark.
I think you're focusing too much on height. I don't say that Pickett is the right option at 5, but if our recruiters thought he was I'd be very pleased with the type of player we were bringing in. I don't think we'd baulk at taking Harley Bennell in the top 5 for example. And a midfielder does not need to be over 185cm to be elite. This thinking would see us pass on Selwood (182cm) for a Cale Morton type. It's just not smart to be so rigid. When you have such a high pick, you take the best player. Only if you had an extremely imbalanced list would you be putting restrictions on the kind of player you'd pick, and we're just not in that situation. I'd be favouring more attacking, quicker players over defensive ones, but even then not to the complete exclusion of a potential star player.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:08 am
by Podpicken
themonk wrote:
a Jon Hassall that can kick
Ha ha, love your work. Go the Bloods.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:53 pm
by blakis
Podpicken wrote:themonk wrote:
a Jon Hassall that can kick
Ha ha, love your work. Go the Bloods.
Looks like he'll be a gun, better highlights package than Petracca. Where's he predicted at going?
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:08 pm
by Bob Sugar
blakis wrote:Podpicken wrote:themonk wrote:
a Jon Hassall that can kick
Ha ha, love your work. Go the Bloods.
Looks like he'll be a gun, better highlights package than Petracca. Where's he predicted at going?
Ability is a big part of it obviously, but so is attitude, and not just your attitude towards football but life itself, I'm sure there's gun kids up for grabs who can't string 2 words together or left school at 16, these are the kids clubs tend to pass on no matter what football ability they have, You need to be the complete package to go early in the draft, recruiters even source school teachers before pulling the trigger on a kid now days.
They want smart kids who learn fast with solid family backgrounds.
PS, I'm not saying the kid you mentioned is a muppet, but it can explain why some kids slip and slide on draft day based on us armchair utube expert/s ratings.
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:16 pm
by swoop42
Equal 1st preference - Wright/Laverde
Can't split these two.
Laverde fulfills a more immediate need as that classy smooth moving medium tall forward flanker with scope to become a big bodied midfielder into the future. Should be able to impact meaningfully at senior level by year two. If Wright lives up to his potential and reaches his ceiling in time it could see us ending up with the best two key position players of this draft. We could set up our forward line for the next decade in the one draft if it all comes off.
3rd preference - Pickett
Pickett is the most highly rated small forward/midfielder in the draft. Highly skilled with line breaking speed and great goal sense that could see him provide us with a genuine crumbing forward in year one with more midfield opportunity in future seasons. Some see him top 5 on pure talent. It has been suggested he is at risk of the "go home factor" but who knows if this has been exaggerated or indeed factual.
Equal 4th preference - Ahern/Weller
For the casual observer like most of us the decision between Ahern and Weller might be best decided by a flip of the coin.
Both similar in size and both offer some of the same desired skill sets of class, elite disposal, speed and ability to hit the scoreboard.
Considered the best pure midfield prospects after Petracca, Heeney and Brayshaw.
The Hine special - Langford
The outsider with claims - De Goey
Pick 30 Beams like steals - Blakely/Lamb
Pick 30 selections we should be happy with McKenzie/Maynard/Menadue
Available at 48 and Hine pounces - McLean/McDonald/Gore
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:44 pm
by roar
swoop42 wrote:
Pick 30 Beams like steals - Blakely/Lamb
& Cockatoo.
Good summary, though, swoop.
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:45 pm
by AN_Inkling
^^Is this a tune change on Pickett, or have I misread your views till now?
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:10 pm
by swoop42
roar wrote:swoop42 wrote:
Pick 30 Beams like steals - Blakely/Lamb
& Cockatoo.
Good summary, though, swoop.
I've given up on Cockatoo still being available at 30.
In reality the other two are highly unlikely as well.
If we end up going for midfield/flanker type at 5 then perhaps Reece McKenzie or Keitel are suddenly a chance at 30 if available and we want another key position forward to partner up with Moore.
McKenzie is an interesting one as I think i read he's only been playing football for a short time having come from a basketball background.
He's a massive unit already at 196cm and 100kg and probably worth taking a punt on as a poor mans McCartin one though who's still raw in terms of experience and development so potentially has a lot of improvement still contained within him.
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:22 pm
by swoop42
AN_Inkling wrote:^^Is this a tune change on Pickett, or have I misread your views till now?
A bit of both.
Still will be surprised if we take him over Laverde or Wright but he is probably just ahead of the two midfielders in Ahern and Weller on raw talent that could see him become elite and a skill set with a point of difference to our current list.
A see Laverde has having the same point of difference as well with only Karnezis possibly being a similar type.
With Adams, Kennedy, Broomhead and Freeman all looking to make there mark through the midfield next season I don't see us in desperate need of taking a "pure mid" this year over the likes of Pickett, Laverde or Wright.
Pick 30 should still see as unearth a capable midfield prospect should we wish to strengthen that area this year anyway and by all reports next years draft is meant to have strong midfield depth to it.
Personally I'm hoping Hine takes best available ahead of a needs based selection.
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:46 pm
by malteaser
laverde is exactly what we need. We need as many skilled kids as we can get, and he also seems to have great decision making skills under pressure. Beams and Pendles only really skilled disposers in the team.
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:55 pm
by RudeBoy
Laverde is definitely the one we need the most, but the more I watch his highlights package the more I'm worried he might be picked by the Dees or GWS.
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:28 pm
by swoop42
The knee injury of Lever is a worry but boy his highlights package scream elite talent to me.
I'm beginning to warm to him.
1.Laverde
2.Wright/Lever
3.Pickett
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:07 pm
by Breadcrawl
5. Pickett
30. DVR
48. Bampton