Our veteran quandary

[Jezza]

It's still early days, but I'm becoming increasingly convinced that age is finally getting the better of us now. This team arguably had a premiership window that stretches back to 2018, but we wasted four seasons under Buckley during this timeframe before shifting to Fly who made our dreams come true through 2022 to 2023.

If you look at 2018-2023, we won a flag, made 2 Grand Finals, 4 Prelim appearances and 5 finals in that time. 2021 was the anomaly where we imploded both on and off the field with the coaching departing and the infighting at board level. A lot of us thought Fly would rebuild the list after 2021 and start from scratch but he opted to extract everything out of the existing squad that he inherited which culminated in what we saw in his first two seasons. It's only now we might now be facing a reckoning that this era is over and we're going to have engage in a rebuild as it was originally intended.

Don't get me wrong the last two seasons were an absolute joy for us. I wouldn't trade anything for what we did in those years. Winning a flag is priceless and the way we did it was spectacular. We became the envy of the competition.

A combination of an ageing squad, being underdone due to a shorter pre-season and the lack of motivation to climb the mountain again is the primary reason for our early season woes.

[Piesnchess]

Yes, I have a feeling seasons end may well see some retirements, from players who have been wonderful for our club. Im talking sidey, Howe, Crisp, maybe even Pendles, they were marvellous last season , but seem tired and slow now. We need a mini rebuild if we miss the finals.

[What'sinaname]

Yes, as much as I had wished that Pendles could get to 400+, he is now a liability on the field due to his lack of pace.
Sidey seems to haver made more mistakes in 3 games than the other 300+ games he's played.
Tough decisions coming up on Pendles, Sidey, Howe and a few others methinks.

[shawthing]

Yes Jezza. So glad we got our veterans a flag last year, because there won't be another coming. Father time is defeated by no one, even Pendles and Sidey. This week I think we can add Jeremy Howe to that list of retirements at season's end. He has been terrible in the past two games. But he's not Robinson Crusoe. Mitchell is definitely finished. We squeezed another flag effort from him last year, but he's a spent lemon now. But there are a few just turned 30s that are looking shaky too: Mihochek, Elliot, Cox. Crisp used to be Mr Reliable. Not anymore.

[qldmagpie67]

Great post Jezza
I think the window back to 2018 is a truth
Every club who’s had a “windows” has a year where things go pear shape
Our age is showing and showing badly
Other than Pendles not one of our 30+ players has had a decent game this season
Mitchell is completely cooked his legs are slow his hands are slow his mind is slow. He did his job in the big games in 2023 which is what we got him for. This has to be his last season

WHE time has been teetering for a couple seasons. End of last year he found some form and played ok in the finals. This year he’s a shadow. Last season

Checkers for Al his efforts is just marginally off the pace. He’s missing a decent focal point up forward which affects his game. If we had a foil up forward he could go another year being the second banana

Elliott has less and less moments as time goes on. A hard slower than he was last year which means he’s not getting that extra separation he needs to mark.he could go 1 more year as 4/5th option in the forward line if needed.

Cox has fewer moments each game. Takes the odd mark and is serviceable in the ruck but he’s barely worth his spot right now. Find a young cheap ruck to chop out for Cameron

Crisp has fallen off massively. He seems to be hell bent on trying to break every tackle and often gets caught then hurries a release. His run and carry isn’t what it was and his chase downs are non existent. If he wasn’t so close to the consecutive games played record he could be sent to the VFL. Right now he’s a good back up. Maybe some sub time is his best position.

Sidey take away that goal in the GF and he hasn’t done much since he hurt his knee mid last season. I said a few times in the later stages last season he looked like his knee wasn’t right and the off season hasn’t changed my opinion. His legs are shot completely. Now he’s taking short cuts so he doesn’t get exposed. In years gone by he wasn’t quick but if you watched vision his work up and down the ground was great he just run and run. Now he can barely jog at a slow clip. He’s fumbling so much I can’t remember the last time he had a clean possession. His kicking has never really been elite always had dinky silly kicks in him but now it’s hit new lows. He can’t find a target beyond 20m now. People will say oh you’ve always hated Sidey which isn’t true I just never rated him as highly as others. Always thought he was a decent player but should never be spoken about in the same sentence as players like Pendles Swan Buckley just because he played so many games.
This is a hard one for the coach and club really. Right now he isn’t deserving a spot in the side based in form. He isn’t on his own in that regard for sure
Has to be his last year if he actually lasts until seasons end

Howe seems a step slower again as well. Losing Murphy hasn’t helped him as he’s now ion 3rd best tall too often instead of 4th option giving him the chance to leave his man and be 3rd man up. Last night was a little better with Frampton back gave us a better looking backline but still stupid errors cost us 5/6 goals. He’s likely to go 1 more but more as a back up defender than automatic selection next season.
Worst is none of our veteran players have any trade capital that could give us some draft picks going forward.
With Tasmania coming in we’re entering a period of compromised drafts right when we will be looking for rebuild. We will have cap space but no draft picks of value to land some younger talent via trade.

We had a good run over the past 7 years as pointed out by Jezza. We should have had 2 premierships in that time but ended up with one.
Lose next week which we are likely to do and the coach and club need to get game time into McRae Allen Harrison etc and see what they have to offer at AFL level.
Worse is we could be handing over a top 5 pick for Schulz which come draft time will hurt massively

No wonder Wright wanted a holiday now come seasons end he will be figuring out how many of the 30+ players are gone and how we replace them

So for mine Cox, Mitchell and Sidey are all gone this year with question marks on WHE, Howe and Elliott futures at ALF level
Maybe those 3 are best served being in the VFL next season as back up and helping guide generation next through

[The Black and White Lion]

I would think Wright has already planned the departures of Howe, Sidey, Pendles, WHE, Mitchell, Checkers, Crisp and Cox before going on leave. Surely you want that spread over a couple of years but based on 2024 so far it could come sooner for some.

Will genuinely be interested to see if any retire before this years MSD or if they’re allowed to just play out their final years. They can’t keep stinking up the AFL team like weeks 1 to 3 but we need some experience.

[DT]

Agree Jezza. The window has ended like it did in 2013. We may still scrape into the finals but at present we are miles off it.

[LaurieHolden]

It's obvious that's now laid bare in front of us. We already knew it, it's been discussed for 10 pages here and it was the question last year, would time catch our ageing players late in the season.

While we've all been basking in premiership glory, we spent the off-season worrying about Premiership merchandise, changes in reserved seats, and looking in the mirror.

We've now gone from lauding our veterans to now wondering how did they hit the wall so quickly.
What we didn't anticipate was the toll the extra five weeks took on them physically and mentally.
The reason why we're at this point lies as much with the coaching panel as it does with the players. But as supporters we get frustrated as it's out of our control. We trust the club has the insight to manage this. We haven't.

I don't want to be Captain conspiracy but the Pies look like a group that has been shaken internally.
Wright absent, coaching group reshuffled. Is there a division in the club and playing group? Ageing list aside, they simply don't look like they're playing for each other.

[Pies4shaw]

The veterans aren't the problem - it's the absence of young players coming to the fore that's the real difficulty. Sidebottom shouldn't be running the wing at 150 years old - but he's doing it because no-one else is up to the task. Just like last year.

[Charlie Oneeye]

Fortunately we have Nick Daicos who is Elite already. The rest are good potential, but as a group, our starting stock not as potent as some other clubs.

Maybe we should not pull the trigger on our 28-30 age group too early.

[RudeBoy]

After 3 poor performances, it's easy to pin the blame on our elders - Pendles, Sidey, Howe and Crisp. Apart from Sidey, who was one of our best in our opening game against the Midgets, none of the others have played anywhere near their levels of last year, and Sidey has been poor in our last 2 games. However, it's also true that the rest of the team, youngsters included, have also been below par, so let's not get too fixated on the form of our teams old brigade. To improve, we need a better effort from ALL players, young and old.

Nevertheless, the OP makes some vaild points about what might transpire at season's end. It wouldn't surprise me if this proves to be the last season for Sidey, Howe as well as Pendles. Only time will tell. As for Crisp, he should be around for another couple of seasons, and hopefully he finds some form quickly. Part of a coach's dilemma is that, despite witnessing the decline of former great players, it's hard to justify dropping them, unless there are younger guns knocking down the door, ready to take their place. Another perspective could also be, that sometimes players can get a bit stale being stuck in the VFL, and need exposure to senior footy to allow them to blossom. Who knows, but maybe Macrae, Allan and Harrison fall into that category.

At the end of the day, I trust Fly to make the right calls, based on all the knowledge he has at his disposal.

[Johnno75]

From all reports Fin MacCrae has been smashing down the door all preseason. Yet he can only be picked as a sub. Even in the praccy against Richmond he was sub. We are in need of an inside mid to get others on the outside, his non selection in the 22 baffles me. He doesn’t even get game time in the VFL as sub

[masoncox]

The veterans aren't the problem - it's the absence of young players coming to the fore that's the real difficulty. Sidebottom shouldn't be running the wing at 150 years old - but he's doing it because no-one else is up to the task. Just like last year.

This is it in a nutshell.
We have done little in the national draft since 2018.
Picked up IG in that year and Nick Daicos in 2021.
Other than that very little in the last 6 drafts.
We have relied on rookies and trades.
We wont have a first round pick this year.
It was bound to catch up with us sooner or later.
Thank god we won last year because the next few years are looking slim.

[qldmagpie67]

The veterans aren't the problem - it's the absence of young players coming to the fore that's the real difficulty. Sidebottom shouldn't be running the wing at 150 years old - but he's doing it because no-one else is up to the task. Just like last year.

Give those minutes to Allen or Harrison or try noble on the wing
Actually Noble on that wing wouldn’t be to bad
He’s quick he can play a defensive role his field kicking is much better snd he actually deserves a spot
We won’t know if Allen or Harrison are any good if we don’t give them game time
Leave McRae in the centre the rest of the season use Mitchell as a sub only or emergency

[Newelly]

Yes Jezza. So glad we got our veterans a flag last year, because there won't be another coming. Father time is defeated by no one, even Pendles and Sidey. This week I think we can add Jeremy Howe to that list of retirements at season's end. He has been terrible in the past two games. But he's not Robinson Crusoe. Mitchell is definitely finished. We squeezed another flag effort from him last year, but he's a spent lemon now. But there are a few just turned 30s that are looking shaky too: Mihochek, Elliot, Cox. Crisp used to be Mr Reliable. Not anymore.

I think some veterans mentioned there have a future past this season if properly managed. Too many retirements in a single season will hurt short-term and medium-term performance of the team.

Cox, Sidebottom and Mitchell still have another season in them. Sullivan should be given a shot to alleviate the workload on Mitchell. I think.