Who says white supremacists are stupid?

Nick's current affairs & general discussion about anything that's not sport.
Voice your opinion on stories of interest to all at Nick's.

Moderator: bbmods

Post Reply
User avatar
David
Posts: 50690
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:04 pm
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 84 times

Post by David »

thesoretoothsayer wrote:Here's an example of the problem with the "racism = prejudice + power" thing.

South Africa, prior to 1994, was an apartheid state where whites had political, cultural and economic hegemony. Since 1994 blacks hold political and cultural power and economically whites, whilst still prominent, no longer have hegemony.

According to the "old" (real) definition of racism if a white South African called a black guy a "dirty kaffir" it would be racist speech both prior and after 1994. According to the "new" definition of racism this would not be a racist utterance post 1994.

Of course, you can argue that South Africa is a special case but if you need to qualify and contextualise a definition it's probably not much of a definition.
I think, as per your earlier post about Obama, you're still taking much too narrow a view of power and privilege. While concentration of political power in South Africa has shifted away from the country's white minority, black South Africans are still considerably more likely to live in poverty:

https://qz.com/africa/1061461/post-apar ... liberated/

While the wealthiest individuals still come from the country's white minority:

https://businesstech.co.za/news/wealth/ ... te-wealth/

This is all to be expected in a country that had an institutionalised race-based power differential at its heart until a generation ago: history lingers, and the fallout of the past doesn't simply vanish overnight. Nonetheless, it's true that South Africa's demographics and post-Apartheid political realignment make it a very different case to the US or Australia, and that the notion of who is privileged and who is disadvantaged may be rather more complicated and situational there. Most likely, the answer to your hypothetical is that racist slurs directed at black South Africans retain a capacity to harm, but that racism against white South Africans has potentially become more of a serious concern than it once was.

By the way, I should also note that there's nothing new about this understanding of racism; it's been discussed nearly since the term first entered common usage. To make the point more generally, consider the very first statement in Article 1 of the 1965 UN convention on the elimination of racial discrimination:

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalIn ... /CERD.aspx
In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
If racism were then simply a matter of what you call the "old/real" definition, the sentence above could have comfortably ended before the bolded section began. But note what that section indicates: that it was not just an abstract concept of racial discrimination that the UN was concerned with, but rather one that had the capacity to cause significant harm to a person. That requires context, and I think the implication is clear there that the context being described in this document was one of inequality.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
User avatar
stui magpie
Posts: 54847
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 10:10 am
Location: In flagrante delicto
Has liked: 133 times
Been liked: 168 times

Post by stui magpie »

K wrote:Man charged after throwing yoghurt at ABC's Leigh Sales

https://www.smh.com.au/national/man-cha ... 52bjy.html

[I'd say if I were Leigh the main worry would be the flying container. If someone standing next to me poured the yoghurt on me, more like Egg Boy or Egg Woman, it wouldn't scare me.]
I'm glad the idiot got charged. There's plenty of ways to protest without throwing objects at public figures you don't like
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
User avatar
David
Posts: 50690
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:04 pm
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 84 times

Post by David »

On the contrary, I think I’m ready to embrace this brave new world of political discourse in this country!

https://youtu.be/aqmzjArJp4U
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
User avatar
Skids
Posts: 9947
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:46 am
Location: ANZAC day 2019 with Dad.
Has liked: 33 times
Been liked: 47 times

Post by Skids »

So... is this, or isn't this racist behaviour on our infamous Armadale train line....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_oK_bgs164

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEMiUEtpWd4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trlhv0GgZ7Y
Don't count the days, make the days count.
User avatar
David
Posts: 50690
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:04 pm
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 84 times

Post by David »

Yes, I feel very oppressed by mentally ill homeless people on public transport. Good thing some hero has recorded these vulnerable individuals for our entertainment.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
watt price tully
Posts: 20842
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 1:14 pm

Post by watt price tully »

David wrote:Yes, I feel very oppressed by mentally ill homeless people on public transport. Good thing some hero has recorded these vulnerable individuals for our entertainment.
Yes a real hero. Some other hero might think it's a good idea to perpetuate the recording of mentally ill and vulnerable individuals for our entertainment. :roll:
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
watt price tully
Posts: 20842
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 1:14 pm

Post by watt price tully »

stui magpie wrote:
K wrote:Man charged after throwing yoghurt at ABC's Leigh Sales

https://www.smh.com.au/national/man-cha ... 52bjy.html

[I'd say if I were Leigh the main worry would be the flying container. If someone standing next to me poured the yoghurt on me, more like Egg Boy or Egg Woman, it wouldn't scare me.]
I'm glad the idiot got charged. There's plenty of ways to protest without throwing objects at public figures you don't like
I don't know, the charge should relate to the type of yoghurt being thrown. Sugar laden (not Sugar bin laden) yoghurt might need to incur a greater penalty than non-sugar yoghurts.
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
User avatar
David
Posts: 50690
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:04 pm
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 84 times

Post by David »

Throwing sugar-laden yoghurt? It’s just not natural. ;)
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
User avatar
KenH
Posts: 1761
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:29 pm

Post by KenH »

watt price tully wrote:
David wrote:Yes, I feel very oppressed by mentally ill homeless people on public transport. Good thing some hero has recorded these vulnerable individuals for our entertainment.
Yes a real hero. Some other hero might think it's a good idea to perpetuate the recording of mentally ill and vulnerable individuals for our entertainment. :roll:
Sounds like the Footy Show, Street Talk with Sam Newman!
Cheers big ears
User avatar
stui magpie
Posts: 54847
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 10:10 am
Location: In flagrante delicto
Has liked: 133 times
Been liked: 168 times

Post by stui magpie »

David wrote:On the contrary, I think I’m ready to embrace this brave new world of political discourse in this country!

https://youtu.be/aqmzjArJp4U
Nah, this one was better. The Great Race, best Pie fight ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eP6bkialg8
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
User avatar
Pies4shaw
Posts: 34888
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm
Has liked: 136 times
Been liked: 182 times

Post by Pies4shaw »

Wokko
Posts: 8764
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:04 pm

Post by Wokko »

Oh my god! The horror of unmoderated discussion. :roll:

Might as well blame the USPS for the Unabomber's manifesto (A real Right wing terrorist btw, accuracy of language matters), it's ridiculous crap being used to silence free speech.

After 8ch they'll got for 4 chan (RIP Cat memes) and then controversial Sub-Reddits or websites the liberal left in Silicon Valley don't like. Expecting corporations to be moral arbiters? What could possibly go wrong.
Wokko
Posts: 8764
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:04 pm

Post by Wokko »

*DP* (this forum software is getting jankier by the month, seriously needs an upgrade).
watt price tully
Posts: 20842
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 1:14 pm

Post by watt price tully »

More right wing terrorism:

Right white supremacist males and right wing islamofascists using each-others techniques to spread more hate

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 52fmw.html
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
User avatar
Pies4shaw
Posts: 34888
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm
Has liked: 136 times
Been liked: 182 times

Post by Pies4shaw »

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -bomb-plot

Nothing quite like buying explosives from the FBI to put a downer on a would-be pogrom.
Post Reply