Just noticed this old topic.
We have a few new members since then. Assuming our main squad would be:
Waugh
Ponting
Hayden
Langer
Martyn
Lehmann
Gilly
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath
with Bichel, Hogg, Love & Katich making up the 15 man squad.
What is your Goldtops squad ? - the next best 15.
Name 11 in batting order with captain and vice and 4 others to make up the squad.
A second Australian Test team ??
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commonwombat
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Liked Donny's idea of having an A side tour the fringe intl teams such as Kenya (who play v respectable ODI stuff), Canada (obviously minus Davidson), Holland and the like. They could well start reprogramming an A team 4 day match against at least one of the touring teams.
One v interesting question is the age of these A teams that people have mooted. No great quibbles about most of those named exc Haddin ( a v mediocre keeper) but the majority are either later 20's or in their 30's. Does raise a question doesn't it about young talent??
One v interesting question is the age of these A teams that people have mooted. No great quibbles about most of those named exc Haddin ( a v mediocre keeper) but the majority are either later 20's or in their 30's. Does raise a question doesn't it about young talent??
he's an animal, what can u expect!!!
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piedys
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CW,commonwombat wrote: One v interesting question is the age of these A teams that people have mooted. but the majority are either later 20's or in their 30's. Does raise a question doesn't it about young talent??
Perhaps because we follow footy so passionately, we become obsessed with youth over experience? We have to consider that a cricketers career-span is WAY longer than that of an AFL footballers. I don't think age wearys cricketers like the constant collision of AFL does to footballers longevity. Keep the A-team as it has been - the next best tier of gun cricketers, not a nursery for young blokes trying to over-prove their worth. They will get their chances throught consistant SHIELD performances. After all, cricketers can take a lot longer to develop into top performers than footballers.
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commonwombat
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Dyso,
To answer yr point. Yes, an intl cricketer's career can certainly extend to mid-maybe later 30's however with the glut of intl cricket being played in recent years the resulting punishment to their bodies may see that change a little.
I far from criticise the selection of a player of @30 if their performance warrants it but they can hardly be seen as a long term solution.
Yr point re development taking time is correct and generally disagree with the promotion of a player in their first/2nd first class season unless they are pure genius.
I do however stick to my guns re the scarcity of real talent in the sub 26 bracket. Re an A side, shouldn't it be a mixture of yr best younger talent with a leadership core of those with some intl experience??
To answer yr point. Yes, an intl cricketer's career can certainly extend to mid-maybe later 30's however with the glut of intl cricket being played in recent years the resulting punishment to their bodies may see that change a little.
I far from criticise the selection of a player of @30 if their performance warrants it but they can hardly be seen as a long term solution.
Yr point re development taking time is correct and generally disagree with the promotion of a player in their first/2nd first class season unless they are pure genius.
I do however stick to my guns re the scarcity of real talent in the sub 26 bracket. Re an A side, shouldn't it be a mixture of yr best younger talent with a leadership core of those with some intl experience??
he's an animal, what can u expect!!!
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Donny
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OK, fellas. There are some good thoughts there but how about putting your teams in ?
Remember, when talking in terms of Darren Lehmann being old, he's 5 years younger that Steve Waugh so let's make 33 the cut off point for the Goldtops. There would need to be 2 or three of these 'veterans' - Blewett, Cox for instance - in the squad anyway, for experience, leadership and guidance.
Remember, when talking in terms of Darren Lehmann being old, he's 5 years younger that Steve Waugh so let's make 33 the cut off point for the Goldtops. There would need to be 2 or three of these 'veterans' - Blewett, Cox for instance - in the squad anyway, for experience, leadership and guidance.
Donny.
It's a game. Enjoy it.
It's a game. Enjoy it.
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commonwombat
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Jeez Donny you're a kill-joy. I was having so much fun carving up Dyso.
Did note yr No1 squad cut into the batting depth.
My A squad.
Elliott
Hussey
Blewett (c)
Clarke
Campbell wk
Symonds
Marsh
Noffke
Williams
Bracken
McGill
White, Hauritz, Watson, Seccombe (if u wish to play Campbell purely as batsman)
Realise my team has longer than usual tail. First 3 of my subs would improve batting but maybe less penetration with ball.
Did note yr No1 squad cut into the batting depth.
My A squad.
Elliott
Hussey
Blewett (c)
Clarke
Campbell wk
Symonds
Marsh
Noffke
Williams
Bracken
McGill
White, Hauritz, Watson, Seccombe (if u wish to play Campbell purely as batsman)
Realise my team has longer than usual tail. First 3 of my subs would improve batting but maybe less penetration with ball.
he's an animal, what can u expect!!!
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Donny
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Good looking team, wombat.
Presumably that's Dan Marsh batting at 7. Makes the squad a little spinner heavy, with 4 and that's not counting Clarke and Symmo.
I'd probably put Hodge in his place but up at 5 and replace Seccombe with Maher as spare opener and reserve keeper.
Watson is a good selection but untill his shoulder comes good I'd probably have Harvey in his place.
Presumably that's Dan Marsh batting at 7. Makes the squad a little spinner heavy, with 4 and that's not counting Clarke and Symmo.
I'd probably put Hodge in his place but up at 5 and replace Seccombe with Maher as spare opener and reserve keeper.
Watson is a good selection but untill his shoulder comes good I'd probably have Harvey in his place.
Donny.
It's a game. Enjoy it.
It's a game. Enjoy it.
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commonwombat
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Marsh is more a batting all-rounder nowadays. You would probably classify Symonds as a batsman who can bowl medium and some sort of spin. I place Clarke in the same category as Blewett, a specialist batsman who rolls his arm over competently.
This is a TEST team we are talking about, not a one-day side therefore Harvey is a non-starter and the Maher as 2nd keeper goes out the window. Thought hard about Maher in squad but his experience is ODI and not Test. Blewett could easily open.
Picked Seccombe in squad as he is the best out and out gloveman in country and batting is now good no8 and gives option if want to play Campbell as specialist batsman.
We realistically are somewhat light in quality pace. Others like Kasparowicz, poss Inness cross ones mind, suppose it can boil down on where you're going to play the match. Terribly sorry but Hodge won't get a cap from me.
This is a TEST team we are talking about, not a one-day side therefore Harvey is a non-starter and the Maher as 2nd keeper goes out the window. Thought hard about Maher in squad but his experience is ODI and not Test. Blewett could easily open.
Picked Seccombe in squad as he is the best out and out gloveman in country and batting is now good no8 and gives option if want to play Campbell as specialist batsman.
We realistically are somewhat light in quality pace. Others like Kasparowicz, poss Inness cross ones mind, suppose it can boil down on where you're going to play the match. Terribly sorry but Hodge won't get a cap from me.
he's an animal, what can u expect!!!
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Donny
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What's your problem with Brad Hodge, mate ? He's in sparkling form and has just come off an excellent County season:
Stuart Law - 1734 @ 96.33 (15 games)
Mark Ramprakash - 1444 @ 76 (15 games - How did he get in there? He's English!)
Brad Hodge - 1427 @ 67.95 (14 games)
Mike Hussey - 1417 @ 94.46 (12 games)
Michael DiVenuto - 1364 @ 50.51 (14 games)
Simon Katich - 1021 @ 56.72 (12 games)
Martin Love - 677 @ 67.70 (6 games)
He was Pura Cup player of the season in 2001/02 and is a brilliant fieldsman.
And why 'terribly sorry' ? These are just opinions.
Re. Seccombe. It's debatable if he's the next best gloveman but if you're including Campbell then another keeper is superfluous and as you bring up the point this is a Test team, why have Campbell in there anyway ?
Certainly a reserve for Gilly in the one day team because of his explosive batting ability but for the longer games you must have the best keeper.
Both Symonds and Campbell are yet to show real batting form in the longer game. Definitely way behind Hodge or Maher.
Upon further reflection, I'd name Stuart Law as captain. A very experienced and highly successful captain and also in sparkling form. His leadership and vast experience would be a big asset in a squad like this.
"Somewhat light in quality pace" ? It looks to me we're pretty healthy in this department. You named Williams, Bracken and Noffke. Toss in Inness, Wright, Kasprowicz, Nicholson and Dawes and we have some real 'in the wings' talent and the first two are getting valuable top level experience.
Stuart Law - 1734 @ 96.33 (15 games)
Mark Ramprakash - 1444 @ 76 (15 games - How did he get in there? He's English!)
Brad Hodge - 1427 @ 67.95 (14 games)
Mike Hussey - 1417 @ 94.46 (12 games)
Michael DiVenuto - 1364 @ 50.51 (14 games)
Simon Katich - 1021 @ 56.72 (12 games)
Martin Love - 677 @ 67.70 (6 games)
He was Pura Cup player of the season in 2001/02 and is a brilliant fieldsman.
And why 'terribly sorry' ? These are just opinions.
Re. Seccombe. It's debatable if he's the next best gloveman but if you're including Campbell then another keeper is superfluous and as you bring up the point this is a Test team, why have Campbell in there anyway ?
Certainly a reserve for Gilly in the one day team because of his explosive batting ability but for the longer games you must have the best keeper.
Both Symonds and Campbell are yet to show real batting form in the longer game. Definitely way behind Hodge or Maher.
Upon further reflection, I'd name Stuart Law as captain. A very experienced and highly successful captain and also in sparkling form. His leadership and vast experience would be a big asset in a squad like this.
"Somewhat light in quality pace" ? It looks to me we're pretty healthy in this department. You named Williams, Bracken and Noffke. Toss in Inness, Wright, Kasprowicz, Nicholson and Dawes and we have some real 'in the wings' talent and the first two are getting valuable top level experience.
Donny.
It's a game. Enjoy it.
It's a game. Enjoy it.
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commonwombat
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The terribly sorry is a response to those Victorians who believe that the rest of Australia has it in for them.
My Hodge reference is over his career as a whole where he realistically hasn't been in the frame for senior selection. His few A apperances have been undistinguished.
Re pace, the names listed have undoubted potential but performance is another matter and these young ones have shown more of the former than the latter. Kaspa has intl form on the board, tick; but Nicholson the other more senior has spent yrs in the wilderness after a surprise Test call up.
Maher has claims agreed, but is fairly advanced in years and I have chosen to err on the side of youth. His better performances have been in the one day arena. Figure that Blewett and Elliott provide the experience at top of the order. Law had good claims and would have got the job a few years ago but is @33, others do have significant captaincy experience.
Re keepers. Gilchrist has the Test job, period. Seccombe is regarded by many judges, not just this old WK, as the best gloveman in the country and has improved his batting to good no 8 level. Others keepers?? Tas = whoizzee; Manou (SA) not really top level; Chuck berry (VIC) u must be joking; Haddin (NSW) can bat but WK less impressive. Campbell is now the regular WA keeper and has improved his keeping in recent years to level that he could well do the job at full intl level.
Anyway, let's agree to disagree. I see yr arguments and acknowledge the merits of many. It's been a good discussion anyway.
My Hodge reference is over his career as a whole where he realistically hasn't been in the frame for senior selection. His few A apperances have been undistinguished.
Re pace, the names listed have undoubted potential but performance is another matter and these young ones have shown more of the former than the latter. Kaspa has intl form on the board, tick; but Nicholson the other more senior has spent yrs in the wilderness after a surprise Test call up.
Maher has claims agreed, but is fairly advanced in years and I have chosen to err on the side of youth. His better performances have been in the one day arena. Figure that Blewett and Elliott provide the experience at top of the order. Law had good claims and would have got the job a few years ago but is @33, others do have significant captaincy experience.
Re keepers. Gilchrist has the Test job, period. Seccombe is regarded by many judges, not just this old WK, as the best gloveman in the country and has improved his batting to good no 8 level. Others keepers?? Tas = whoizzee; Manou (SA) not really top level; Chuck berry (VIC) u must be joking; Haddin (NSW) can bat but WK less impressive. Campbell is now the regular WA keeper and has improved his keeping in recent years to level that he could well do the job at full intl level.
Anyway, let's agree to disagree. I see yr arguments and acknowledge the merits of many. It's been a good discussion anyway.
he's an animal, what can u expect!!!
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Donny
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Most countries are fortunate to have a second quality pace bowler, let alone a third.
Sth. Africa are already suffering from Donald's retirement. Pollock is top draw but it's daylight second. Ntini is enthusiastic but expensive.
Zimbabwe have Streak but look very thin after that.
Apart from Goughy, England haven't had a quality speedster for years.
With Srinath gone, India are struggling although Zaheer looks promising.
New Zealand have some class with Bond and Tuffey but only trundlers after that.
Bangladesh's Mortaza shows a bit of promise but still very green.
The Windies ? Well, 507 from the Zimbos tells a story there.
Sri Lanka have Vaas but who else ?
Only Pakistan seem to be producing good quickies with Akhtar, Sami, Gul and Shabbir.
So, with that in mind and considering we have McGrath, Gillespie, Lee and Noffke all out injured, I submit this article - more about Williams and Bracken than Bic.
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Bichel slips in pecking order
By Andrew Ramsey
November 7, 2003
ANDY BICHEL entered the triangular one-day tournament in India as Australia's most experienced pace bowler and expected to lead the charge on challenging sub-continental pitches.
But a combination of poor rhythm, exaggerated swing in heavy conditions and a dose of "Bombay belly" has blunted his impact to the point that he appears to have missed his chance to move beyond his traditional role as third-choice seamer.
Bichel admitted yesterday he had expected to be elevated to No.1 bowler when Glenn McGrath, Jason Gillespie and Brett Lee succumbed to injuries before the month-long tour began two weeks ago.
However, captain Ricky Ponting opted for newcomers Brad Williams and Nathan Bracken to share the new ball and their results have proved as startling as Bichel's form has been disappointing.
Bracken has revelled in the spearhead role with 10 wickets at 14.60 from four matches. Dual man of the match winner Williams also has 10 wickets (at 16.20), while Bichel's struggle is reflected by his return of three wickets at 52.33 with 24 wides from his 29 overs.
Ponting confirmed Bichel's suspicion that the Queenslander had suffered because of the role he had been asked to play throughout most of his six-year international career, that of third or fourth fiddle behind big-name team-mates.
"I would probably have liked to have taken the new ball at certain stages," Bichel said. "But, in saying that, I haven't had a lot of opportunity to bowl with the new ball while playing for Australia and I've been in the team for quite a while now.
"Playing for Queensland and (English county) Worcestershire, you take the new ball all the time, so you do get used to that and bowling in the middle (overs) can be a very tough time because batsmen are set."
Bichel found he was decidedly out of tune during Australia's match against New Zealand in Faridabad nine days ago, when the early morning start meant the ball swung alarmingly and was difficult to control. He felt he was close to hitting the right notes during Australia's thumping win over India in Mumbai last Saturday but the stomach bug that subsequently swept through several team members left him off-colour for Monday's game in Pune.
Sth. Africa are already suffering from Donald's retirement. Pollock is top draw but it's daylight second. Ntini is enthusiastic but expensive.
Zimbabwe have Streak but look very thin after that.
Apart from Goughy, England haven't had a quality speedster for years.
With Srinath gone, India are struggling although Zaheer looks promising.
New Zealand have some class with Bond and Tuffey but only trundlers after that.
Bangladesh's Mortaza shows a bit of promise but still very green.
The Windies ? Well, 507 from the Zimbos tells a story there.
Sri Lanka have Vaas but who else ?
Only Pakistan seem to be producing good quickies with Akhtar, Sami, Gul and Shabbir.
So, with that in mind and considering we have McGrath, Gillespie, Lee and Noffke all out injured, I submit this article - more about Williams and Bracken than Bic.
---------------------------------
Bichel slips in pecking order
By Andrew Ramsey
November 7, 2003
ANDY BICHEL entered the triangular one-day tournament in India as Australia's most experienced pace bowler and expected to lead the charge on challenging sub-continental pitches.
But a combination of poor rhythm, exaggerated swing in heavy conditions and a dose of "Bombay belly" has blunted his impact to the point that he appears to have missed his chance to move beyond his traditional role as third-choice seamer.
Bichel admitted yesterday he had expected to be elevated to No.1 bowler when Glenn McGrath, Jason Gillespie and Brett Lee succumbed to injuries before the month-long tour began two weeks ago.
However, captain Ricky Ponting opted for newcomers Brad Williams and Nathan Bracken to share the new ball and their results have proved as startling as Bichel's form has been disappointing.
Bracken has revelled in the spearhead role with 10 wickets at 14.60 from four matches. Dual man of the match winner Williams also has 10 wickets (at 16.20), while Bichel's struggle is reflected by his return of three wickets at 52.33 with 24 wides from his 29 overs.
Ponting confirmed Bichel's suspicion that the Queenslander had suffered because of the role he had been asked to play throughout most of his six-year international career, that of third or fourth fiddle behind big-name team-mates.
"I would probably have liked to have taken the new ball at certain stages," Bichel said. "But, in saying that, I haven't had a lot of opportunity to bowl with the new ball while playing for Australia and I've been in the team for quite a while now.
"Playing for Queensland and (English county) Worcestershire, you take the new ball all the time, so you do get used to that and bowling in the middle (overs) can be a very tough time because batsmen are set."
Bichel found he was decidedly out of tune during Australia's match against New Zealand in Faridabad nine days ago, when the early morning start meant the ball swung alarmingly and was difficult to control. He felt he was close to hitting the right notes during Australia's thumping win over India in Mumbai last Saturday but the stomach bug that subsequently swept through several team members left him off-colour for Monday's game in Pune.
Donny.
It's a game. Enjoy it.
It's a game. Enjoy it.
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Johnson#26
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