Post-match: Dees too good for Pies - all comments here...

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Culprit
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Post by Culprit »

uuuuu..... The LoneSTAR wrote:
Culprit wrote:You can't bring in so many kids and expect to win. They may have been inform in the VFL but the level is well below AFL standard.
I posted this in another thread:
OUT: Carracella [130+games], Swan [40games], Maxwell [40games], Richards [20games], Holland [100+games]
- 330+ games of experience

IN: Travis [22games], Iacca [4games], Pendles [2games], Rowe [25games], Thomas [10games]
- 63 games of experience
PLUS Easy to forget that Heath Shaw only has 16 games to his name as well!!

that is pretty much what it comes down too.
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Post by twaters »

3rd degree wrote:We lost this game partly at selection table O'brien would have been right to stand Pickett and R.Shaw could have played off bench for periods on Davey.
Agree wholeheartedly. Rhyce looms as a key figure to get back flying by finals time - for the quick run-with roles that we struggle with like Melb & WCoast (Lockyer has Ablett etc covered well, but the sheer speedsters nix; perhaps Yakka could be tried at Willi at backpocket otherwise - he blanketed Ray in midfield against Werribee).

OBwan might well have staunched the backs bleeding, but who knew Wakes would go down? Any news on his thigh (is it thigh?) and how long it may take to recover? Bucks' knee okay?

MM can (usually) coach a defensive side to finish within a sixpence of where he predicts. Did he not predict the hard-tag on O'Bree, especially with our other mids out? Nor predict that we've not yet beaten the Davey/Yze blitzkrieg?

At least when it was all but gone, I suspect he just got the best game time experiences he could out of our newbies. Rowe and Yakka need to play to get some games for finals and depth/cover, but so far it seems the grunt of Davies and the enigmatic of Egan carry more weight. No harm done. Our "depth" needs deepening, but we are still two or three years away from them taking over any driving roles. This year and next as possibles and then it's over to the new generation.

End of rant: we need an emerging ruckrover type (see possibly Pendles, Rusling); a mid playmaker (see hopefully first round draft pick later this year); and {swearword ahead} a ruckman.

Frase is our best ruckman, as arguably Pebs was some years ago while Frase was upgrowing. Frase is now our best change ruckman and follower as Pebs was then. TCloke XX; CCloke XX; Walker XX - all pinch hitters. Richards (yes, but it seems we'd expensively need two back ups on the same list to cover for him - this year would probably decide). Fanning? Jury still well out, but encouraging signs at Willi now around ground and up forward; pity about the clearance hit outs.

If we are gunning for any finals glory this year, then Richards or Fanning need to do a Keating and be in/out injured all year but come up with some thumping form at the end; or do we know any established ruckery thugs who'd trade to us for a year in 07? We can grow our own after that as our experienced group will by then be adios on the premiership clock bizzo.
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Cuthbert Collingwood
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Post by Cuthbert Collingwood »

established ruckery thugs: keating?
McRae for Governor-General!
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maggies2003
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Post by maggies2003 »

uh oh..

im noticing a common theme with our losses.. they are against teams that we will have to play in september..

:cry:
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Cam
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Post by Cam »

Travvy just has the second year blues. He'll come good.
Get back on top.
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Big T
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Post by Big T »

Spoiling was poor. Would have loved J Cloke sweeping through the backline aka 2002. That was for me the most disappointing feature, the lack of defensive pressure and know genuine spoilers. You can say what you want about Clokey but he is still the best spoiler in the team.

Having a down week before the bye is probably the best time IMO - 2 weeks to consider strengths/weaknesses, tailor made training programs for 2 weeks, still 8-3, nothing wrong with that. Fraze's wave wasn;t all bad, puts some pressure back on him to lift to the next level which he still needs to and can do.

Loved Didaks game.
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Big T
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Post by Big T »

sherrife wrote:A black day for our boys, but at least us supporters had a good hour and 45 minutes of game time to prepare ourselves for the eventual loss :twisted:

In all seriousness a few points stand out atm:

* Pendles and Thomas will be good players, Rowe and Yakka didn't really get near it so can't be judged, although Rowe's disposal seemed fine to me.

* Fraser and Didak are really cementing their spots as members of the elite players in the league

* Morrison probably squandered his last chance at AFL footy, he was supposed to be the cool experienced head in defence but was shocking both composure and skill-wise.

* I have always been a fan of Lonie but his great start to the season has completely faded and for the last month he has been a passenger. Also, this has been done to death... but he is just so so so soft. I say that as an unabashed hater-of-physical-contact myself, and with no offence intended, but he I just dont think he can stand big-game pressure. Leon also went missing again in a big match, though with him I don't think it's the physicality it may be more of a mental thing in his case. Not sure what the verdict is for these two players.

* MM cracked again under pressure... Without knowing what happened and the status of the various players' health it seems stupid to ask this but is it possible he panicked/froze in the third? Why wasn't Buckley moved into the centre? Ditto for Rocca/Didak? I just don't understand it seemed like we just sat back and watched it happen.

* We desperately need a backup game plan.

* Lastly and most seriously, we have lost all 3 games against the only 3 teams who are serious contenders this year... I don't know whether to write it off as bad luck, but if it were another team i think we would be questioning them seriously...

God help us, we were starting to believe our own hype. This should hopefully be a reality check and we get back to playing good solid footy. Even so I will not be happy again unless we beat at least two of St Kilda, Sydney and Richmond.

Go Pies![/list]
FFS Sheriffe, to put it in perspective, we lost against Adelaide in Round 1 when we were still finding our feet, played well though, and in Western australia, where most teams pencil a loss in. So really, this is the first game where we were perhaps expecting to win but lost. That happens.
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melliot
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Post by melliot »

Can't add a lot to whats been said. We have some depth but not a lot. Just played too many kids.

When you take Cara, Swan and Brodie out thats probably 60 to 80 possies and 4 or 5 goals. Big output loss. Bring in Yakka, Rowe, and Thomo that drops down 30 possies and 1 or 2 goals. Thats a big drop off and thats not taking into account the defensive capabilities.

AND

everything went the Dees way (eg; Yze's goal out of mid air) and we had a shocker (Eg; Bucks dropping a mark and Dids missing Taz on a number of occacians).

nuf said. Pies need to lift for the swans and really key em selves up.

Go Pies
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burnsy17
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Post by burnsy17 »

You could tell from the warm up we werent switched on. Blokes were dropping simple marks, missing targets by foot 20 metres away and i dont think we nailed 1 shot at goal during the whole warm up...

We played exactly how we warmed up. Shithouse.
Beware the swooping Magpie.
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bokka
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Post by bokka »

Main things that were wrong (not sure in what order)(and I know others have covered most of this stuff already):

1. Poor tackling, pressure and overall intensity - Melbourne killed us in this area. The team perhaps started to think they are millionaires and forgot that our resurgence this year was built on high pressure hard tackling footy.

2. Disposal errors - kicking was back to the standard of last year - but how much of that was due to the pressure applied by the opposition? A lot of the mistakes were without much pressure but this may reflect lack of mental stability under pressure - but could just as easily have just been an off day at the office. The loss of Swannie, Brodie and Cara possibly also caused a bit of mental collapse to the mids, they need to learn from that. Players seemed to go into their shells a bit.

3. MM was totally outcoached on the day. It may be that sides are starting to "work us out" so it will be a big challenge for MM to see how he adapts, or will he go back to playing "blame the players"? WE've heard a bit recently in the media about MM being arrogant, not a big surprise to hear IMO. My advise to players is, don't play for MM but for the side and the club, but of course you must play to his instructions and have faith in his coaching, it just isn't essential to actually like him. Just accept his authoritarian style, it might just get us a flag, and don't worry about him never admitting personal fault. I still think he has coached fantastically this year and I'm backing him all the way at least for the rest of this season. Everyone's annoying in some ways (except me of course :?), he might be a great bloke overall for all I know but it doesn't matter much as far as coaching goes.

4. Defense really struggled - missed Wakelin, and Maxwell and/or O'brien who will surely get a go next week (dep on how he went in the willi game). Also was caused largely by point 1 (lack of midfield pressure). Too much was asked of inexperienced palyers like Rowe and Trav in defense, due to us being undermanned. Oh yeah who said Melbourne has a weak defense??

Worst game I've seen the amazingly consistent Buckley play, and Johnno was well down. Some of that could be put down to point 1 again, but we have to play better under that sort of intense pressure - the game was a great learning experience and reality check, and prep for finals footy.
It's not fair to be too hard on Rowe and Yakka, Rowe in particular was quite good I thought considering his first game for about a year, and Yakka showed some promise. I thought MM was a bit hard on them on TV. AS for Trav, as Cam said looks like the 2nd year blues, anyone who doubts he will be an absolute star has rocks for brains.
Pendles settling in nicely, and Thomas started to rediscover his previous flair in the last half so might power on from here we hope.

I still tend to think it can largely just be put down to a flat game and we will be back with a vengeance vs the Swines.
Melbourne look like they will be right up there.
One more thing: we need a Byron Pickett.
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Mossi
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Post by Mossi »

bokka wrote:One more thing: we need a Byron Pickett.
I reckon we have one in Heath Shaw!! Poor bloke was Swamped on monday. Maybe does not push his weight around like Pickett but stirs up the troops and is still a kid ( his temperament and will reminds me of his old man). Maxi's and hollands hardness was missed.
Rocca was not pushing his weight around and melbourne were much harder at everything. Then we got killed in the ruck just like last year!
The positive thing that came out was that although we were gone halfway through the third we did'nt get run over!!
We are definetly going through a low be interesting how we are going to get throught it and how MM and Co devise our game plan against the Swannies.
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Stinger
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Post by Stinger »

Mossi wrote:
bokka wrote:One more thing: we need a Byron Pickett.
I reckon we have one in Heath Shaw!! Poor bloke was Swamped on monday. Maybe does not push his weight around like Pickett but stirs up the troops and is still a kid ( his temperament and will reminds me of his old man). Maxi's and hollands hardness was missed.
Rocca was not pushing his weight around and melbourne were much harder at everything. Then we got killed in the ruck just like last year! The positive thing that came out was that although we were gone halfway through the third we did'nt get run over!!
We are definetly going through a low be interesting how we are going to get throught it and how MM and Co devise our game plan against the Swannies.
Just a minor observation from watching in my lounge room on Monday, it seemed every centre bouce went to Melbourne's advantage. Either Fraser was left flat footed as he waited under it or it went the other way and he couldn't reach the contest. Either way when are the umpires gonna get it right and learn to bounce them straight. [/b]
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