Post match v Cows..all comments here

[drew1602]

For the first time in almost 30 years of going to see the Pies play I serously contemplated leaving the game early.and by that I mean prior to half time ( yes it was that bad)... Even back in the late 90's under Shaw out team showed some heart..I dont mind losing games, all I ask is that our team be competative...right now that arent even close. As I heard someone say on SEN this morning...our players either are incapable of playing MM's game plan or unwilling...I think it may be a bit of both...Oh well...as they say what doesnt kill you only makes you stronger...

[Sultan of spin]

We had more of the ball, more shots at goal, more better players but we lost the game and it is all becasue they executed there simple game plan better than we executed Malthouses' ridiculous game. If Malthouse wasn't coaching I reckin we would have 2 wins on the board.

[Big T]

The most disappointing thing was how easily we were bumped off the ball. Especially Lonie, so soft.

Is it just me or are our players carrying 50% less muscle than the other teams?

I would play Tarrant and Lonie on the wing, or put Taz in defence and make him run and accountable for a man.

Someone earlier mentioned Jason Cloke and why isn't he playing, probably because he is doing even worse than last year if that is possible.

[35forever]

Bloody hell! What game were you watching? Maybe the difference is that I couldnt watch it live and only just watched the replay now after the depression has settled a bit.

Yes, it was ultimately down to the players, but only because they lack confidence and the habit of winning. Those same blokes, with the same game plan, would have walked home if they had anything like the confidence of 20 months ago. I was devastated beyond belief when I head it was a 6 point loss, but I feel a whole lot better now. Last week I was outspoken (to say the least) about the lack of commitment and guts and stated that this game would determine our season, and that we didnt even need to win it, just perform a whole lot better and harder for four quarters.

I'm quite satisfied that we did that. Our endeavour & tackling was 200% improved. We didnt give up the game as lost until the final siren. We played for each other better, and SOME of our skills work was quite excellent. Tarks' tackle on Mcleod deep in the last was the best Collingwood one-percenter since Johnno on Burgoyne in the '02 qualifier, and both Cheesy and Rhyce were good, Rhyce was in my best 5 players. despite a couple of skill errors, and again, that's just a matter of confidence. In the second half, particularly the third quarter, we were easily the better team, having most of the play but just not being able to convert. At one point we were 3.9. THAT is the most tellling statistic of the game. The '03 team would have been 9.3. and it would have been game over.

Licca was fantastic, Willo was serviceable, Tex showed a bit, Cam was very good indeed, Johnno got plenty of it, Rowe was good, Woewie tried hard and will improve out of sight in coming weeks. Taz & Rocca werent up to their best, but definitely improved on last week. Wakes was bloody solid, as was Jimmy, and Presty, despite a bagging by the pundits, kept his man out of it for half a game. Neon did plenty, while Lonie didnt, but was only on for 30% of the game. The only real bad aspect of this game was that we went home without the four points because we've lost the ability to win. We can play okay, we just cant win.

Somehow we need something to happen to turn our confidence around. Bagging from press & supporters wont do it, neither will talk of sackings or dropping people. In '03 it was the trip to Darwin. What happened on that trip?

[Mossi]

I think 35forever is half right in saying they have forgotten how to win because they have no confidence. The team has not started to click as a team; for example bad delivery to the fowards, bad options the timing is all out! This indirectly stuff up your confidence
We have lost some important cogs in Bucks and fraz, the touch of magic that dids brings and a ruck department that is up in the air. So it's also a time to adjust and MM has got to get good balance into the team. The fact they they look slow, it maybe because they have not freshened up from the training load of the pre-season A player doesn't loose his speed at 28 years of age
Ant was on 3aw prior to the Crows game and you could tell he was pissed off with the effort against the dogs. I rekon the players are also hurting , If their not they should't be paying for the B&W.
The coaching staff are not on a holiday! I am sure They are trying to turn things around. Even if it is bloody hard we have to be patient and support our players. Slugging them has no positive effect eccept for getting it off our backs.
Maybe we wont be out of our slump to be good enough to beat Carton But I will be dissapointed and pissed of if they don't put it in.

[Cannibal]

I think it's pretty easy for people to bag the coach, players and club when things are seemingly off track but, I really do wonder, whether some of you actually have lives outside of a ridiculous obsession with Collingwood? Pre-season, when I stated the obvious that West Coast were better side than we were, I was bagged for being pessimistic and not saying we'd win by ten goals. Now, we've lost two games, one in which we were clearly a six goal better side, and it's as if my pre-season comments were ridiculously OPTIMISTIC! Some of you guys have veered from the stupidly optimistic just a few weeks ago to the pathetically ridiculous now in your comments.

Look at this, someone other than me isn't blinded by their 'ridiculous obsession' and can see the truth, we're shit! hahaha

It's easy enough on this Board to click the "Quote" button and accurately quote what someone writes but it seems to be another thing entirely to accurately understand (comprehend) what has been written. Some of you do it so badly, I wonder what you spent your 12 years in the education system achieving.

I DO NOT think the team is "shit"; far from it. They are playing badly, and that's another thing entirely.

You would have far better understood the point of my post if you'd quoted from the final paragraph:

I'm taking the positives out of this game. The kids, predominantly, and make no mistake, despite having been in the club for five years, blokes like Fraser, Johnno, Shaw, Leon and Lonie are all still on the light side of 25. I haven't changed my mind on what I've said so often before; this isn't our year, 2006 will be, and it will come from these kids becoming the backbone of the side.

To make it crystal clear, I'm pissed off at the amount of irrational despair posted after last Sunday's result. The result was bad and there's no escaping that, but all is not doom and gloom. Fer chrissakes, it's only round 2!

I'm actually pleased that some of the changes MM made were effective, and I nominated them in my earlier post: Johnno being moved into the centre, Rowe and Cam Cloke coming back into the side, Walker at FF, Leon into the midfield.

I see a light at the end of the tunnel and the light is the kids. What I'm not impressed with at the moment is the performance of some of the veteran players (not all of them) and I named them too (the candidates for demotion, with Burnsie's naming being qualified by saying that I think he's injured and should be dropped only to get fit, if I'm right).

I also said that I think some of the finger-pointing MM has done is "spin" - blaming the players (and not the correct ones, either). I'm not getting sucked in by it and many of you would do well to sit back and realise it's just that - "spin". Not worth getting your knickers in a knot over.

There are three things I'd like to see on Saturday:

MM promote the kids,
the team play a more aggressive, direct brand of footy, and
for the players to play for their team mates and the guernsey.

We need no prima donnas and I don't care if Malthouse drops any of them eg Tarrant, and I equally don't care if we have no "stars", and play merely a workman-like game, so long as we play with heart, passion and soul (like Jimmy Clement). I also don't care we take risks (Johnno, Shaw) and if we make mistakes because of that, so long as those mistakes are made in trying to do the right thing, because, as my earlier post noted, it comes off a helluva lot more often than it fails. I want to see a 2nd half 2003 level of desperation, when we were clearly the best team in the competition. We've been there with virtually the same team as we have now and we can get back up there again if we try. There were clear signs on Sunday that we CAN do it and I, for one, am not writing this team off.

I just wish some of you guys would take a more realistic view of where we are and not despair because it looks like we won't win the premiership this season. I never expected to. But I know what we can do. I just want to see the guys play as I know they can.

[Cam]

I think Mick should get them to walk down Lygon street, in their collingwood gear, one at a time, at 10 minute intervals, and feel the love the Lygon Streeters will give them. Then make them have a pizza and enjoy more of the hospitality of the locals.

[35forever]

That's actually not a silly idea Cam. These players get most of their knowledge about how the world sees them from the press, and according to the press they're a bunch of no hopers without a chance of winning 3 games this year, let alone the flag.

Come on people, twenty lousy months ago! I'm not saying we were great in the sixties or seventies here (though we were), I'm talking twenty lousy months! Same coach, same game plan, same players with a few exceptions and a few good additions Rowe & Tex showed me something I havent seen from either until the last couple - Tex has a flair for a speccy! I'm liking that. He has a hunger for the 60 metre goal & the towering mark. I know it doesnt win matches, but - bullshit! It wins matches, just like McLeods couple of spectacular touches won on Sunday. I've also watched a bunch of Caracella's old games since he signed with us, and I've not seen him play better than Sunday, nor work harder. And he HAS the winning habit. When the crucial goal needed to be kicked he stepped up & slotted it. He WANTS to succeed at Collingwood & he WANTS Collingwood to win, and whats more, he's used to it! Chad too has been excellent. Just what we need, the pair of them. Cam was excellent too, great game by a kid with a handfull under his belt.

I agree, we probably wont beat Carlton, especially as they're doing all this "rivals week" shite (that sort of rubbish is never good for us as we're a confidence team & it adds pressure), but if we go hard for four quarters I guarantee we wont get blown away, we virtually never do. Like I said, we probably wont win on Saturday, but we can still win the flag this year.

Yeah, go on,laugh yer guts out!

If this team turned it's mental abilities around like they did after mid '03, The Darwin trip, and that awful Hawthorn game with the 1.8 first quarter, there is NO reason why they cant do it again, and NO ONE can prove otherwise.

Maybe Cam is right. Maybe what happened on that famous Darwin trip was
the love & adulation of all those territory kids? Lygon street might do just as well.

And US,what can WE do? Stop baggin' start believin', get down to training, make signs, Tell 'em they're the best. Dont tell me its only the players & coaches who can help, every team is made up of four elements: Players Coaches, Staff & Supporters, and every one of them is important to the on-field performance. I dont have to tell anyone here how the Collingwood army has helped turn games. Well lets get that army to training and tell them we believe in them and will support them come hell or high water, and that if they put in for four quarters we'll be cheering our hearts out.

Then let's make sure the Carlton 'army' sounds like a damp squib when Joffa & the guys fire up! Surely we can do more than just sit here & moan?

And dont give me any 'blind obsession' rubbish, these blokes are more than capable of doing the job - unlike most other teams we have proof of that.

20 lousy months ago!

[favourites 2008]

Actually I think he had 7 touches in the first quarter. There is no doubt that McLeod was the match winner, he was clearly the class player on the ground, kicked 4 and set up a couple of others, his skill and pace shone out above everyone else.

You are correct, he had 7 touches in the first qtr. Then not one more touch until late in the 3rd.
No one who goes missing that long is a match winner.

Again, look at the scoreboard. It tells the tale.

That still doesn't answer my question: Who was on him?

Started with Burns, went to holland, then Shaw had him quiet for bout 1/4 then tarks had him from then on in, how could you miss that tackle he put on him. And Yes Mcleod was the match winner as he kicked 4 goals and not points. Would we have won if Mcleod didnt play? Yes.

[Clokey]

Ian Perrie kicked two goals, so following your logic he was the match winner as well?

[DaVe86]

spot on guys about cam cloke, although he may hav dropped a critical mark which led to a goal, he tried his guts out and thats all we can ask since he was playing in a position he is not accustomed to. He rucked most of the day without breaks.

Tarrant and Rocca were bad but so was the kicking to them. In general the forward line structure didnt look to bad when tarrant was at centre half forward and he roamed the ground. However there were so many instances players did not honour the lead and tarrant became frustrated.

Further, Tarrant was unable to bend over most of the game, some sort of injury there, and rocca was breathless and was definately carrying injuries.

Thought Rowe was a highlight, although he made some mistakes showed a bit of dash and skill. Also thought shaw was good apart from his kicking inside 50, but he was not the only 1. I think if we continue to give shaw game time, he will develop his kicking skills.

Our defence again was good. It was frustrating because our midfield were tackling as well as ive seen in a while, we were winning possession and genuinely looked like the better team out there, just couldnt deliver it proparly to the forwards.

The problem with our midfielders like obree and johnson and shaw is that they do not honour the leads that present, instead they keep looking for other targets until they run out or options, then they get lost and just bomb it to nobody. I think Tarrant was presenting hard but we refused to kick it to him. When tarrant was honoured, it was on the boundary line. Why he continues to lead there i dont no.

We were not a worse team than adelaide. However with all the missed opportunities we did not deserve to win. When the game was tight, we couldnt finish off and no team is ever going to win with our scoreline. Theres a lot of work to be done, but atleast cloke and rowe and shaw, Walker got game time, they are the future of the club and showed some promise.

[DaVe86]

looking at the game, i really thought malthouse would try shaw on mcleod from the start. He put holland on him instead. What a silly move, holland is a good tagger but doesnt have the pace, shaw does. However when shaw was moved onto mcleod late in the opening term, mcleod quickly moved forward to play one on one with shaw as shaw is not good in a marking contest. Lockeyer was then placed onto mcleod and did a decent job until he was allowd to run free at the end of the match.

Mcleod kicked 2 opening term goals on holland. Cant believe malthouse thought this would work. Personally i think shaw shouldve stayed on mcleod even if it was up forward, the further mcleod is from the centre the better. With Clement and Wakelin taking great contested marks, they wouldve been able to help. Lockyer is good but was blown away in the last quarter. Shaw was the only one with the pace to match mcleod the same way as he matched judd twice.

[K- Man]

Williams and Obree are the scapegoats. Plenty of other players not performing but let's blame these two. Give me a break. The whole list bar Buckley and Clement need to work on kicking skills as far as I'm concerned.
Starting with Carlton this week. Go Pies!!!!

[Cam]

When McLeod is in that frame of mind, after Jarman called him 'soft' during the week and blamed him for their loss to WC, no-one can stop him. No-one. I was right behind him as he kicked the sealer, it never even looked like missing, non-preferred foot and all, tight angle. When he's on, he is unstoppable - like Hird. McLeod worked his arse off all game.

[bokka]

Personally i think shaw shouldve stayed on mcleod even if it was up forward, the further mcleod is from the centre the better. With Clement and Wakelin taking great contested marks, they wouldve been able to help. Lockyer is good but was blown away in the last quarter. Shaw was the only one with the pace to match mcleod the same way as he matched judd twice.

The problem is that Shaw is becoming very important to our midfield with his dash and receiving - he would have been almost as much of a loss to ours as Mcleod to their midfield.
I actually didn't think they played all that bad, a lot better than last week, evasive skills, teamwork, backing up and numbers around the contests were OK. Dlivery obvioulsy a big problem. But also Cows are a bit underrated - their midfield is A grade and we at least broke even there, their backline was tight, great spoiling of our talls and rebound run was good also. Cole had the fumbles, he did about 4 but the 2 in front of the goal alone cost us the game in the end - can happen to just about any player every now and then. Rocca and Tarrant's goal kicking - if they had got just one more each we would have won.
All in all not necessarily as gloomy as it seems. The team has learnt how to win the hard ones, just has to get that knack back. All in all I think it will be just about a toss-up against Carlton.