Post match v Cows..all comments here

[uuuuu..... The LoneSTAR]

I for one have lost patience with Lonie. Don't want to axe him just yet, but at least back to Willy to get some confidence up.

Didn't see much of Holland yesterday - Maybe a stint at Willy might do him good also,.... although that maybe a little premature.

Rhyce Shaw is probably not good enough for AFL due to his consistent foot passing errors. I hate to say that, cause i was one of those calling for the head of Johnno a few short years ago for the same reason - Although he was also wayward yesterday - Apart from that stunning pass on Roccas chest at the true CHF position!!!!!.. Rocca missed that set shot

Yes i agree that our endeavour was better, but i still think that our tackling is not effective enough - not fierce enough!!!

We probably had 2 good passages of play - There could've been more had our kicking been better, but not enough to give me real hope. I'm still not prepared to call it quits for 2005 because i can always see the light at the end of the tunnel. Although i must admit that at the moment, that light could very well be the 4:45pm from Broadmeadows.

One more thing: Jimmy Clement for President,.... of Australia!!!!!

[Culprit]

Lonie has to play forward of the centre, If Lonie gets a defensive forward he struggles. I am no fan of Rhyce but despite many bagging him including myself, he busted his arse yesterday and was one of the few prepared to go straight up the middle.

[bokka]

...... I'm still not prepared to call it quits for 2005 because i can always see the light at the end of the tunnel. Although i must admit that at the moment, that light could very well be the 4:45pm from Broadmeadows. ......

AFter 2 games it's not a very long tunnel, just that the train seems like a broken down old steamer with a leaky boiler and soggy coal.

Re Rhyce I imagine he probably lost a bit of sleep over that last pass, and his pillow copped some punishment, hopefully he bounces back and it doesn't shred his confidence. He could be very important this season. Can happen to anyone, like Judd last week committed a bad fumble that cost a goal near the end and could have cost them the game.

[Joel]

Rocca 1.4
Tarrant 1.3

Says it all

POOR kicking at goal has cost us in the end

I'd blame other parts of the team, before I blame Tarrant and Rocca for that display.

[Cam]

I don't know how people can put leon in our duds yesterday. Just about every time we scored a goal he had a hand in it, a tap on, a slick hand ball. FFS open your eyes.

[Culprit]

Joel that was a standout stat, they all kicked *hit.

[Joel]

Before you bag Wakelin, I think you should actually watch the game. He was one of the few players today that stopped the cows from beating us by more! You may have seen one clanger, but you missed about 4 brilliant marks by him on the backline!

Have to agree. Wakes was great yesterday, anyone that bags him, didn't watch the game.

[Joel]

True Culprit, but they were kicking from the pockets. Tarrant and Rocca probably lead to the pockets too often, however, because of the bs game plan we have, and the bs kicking/hanballig/chipping, that's where they have to go to actually get the ball.

Their kicking was pathetic, but there are others to blame before them.

[M@®©]

Rocca 1.4
Tarrant 1.3

Says it all

POOR kicking at goal has cost us in the end

I'd blame other parts of the team, before I blame Tarrant and Rocca for that display.

Im not entirly blaming those 2 , there just part of the reason why we aint winning footy games.
When 2 key forwards manage 2 goals 7 behinds between them in the end it costs you games. Had it been 7.2 well it might just of been a diferent outcome.

[Joel]

Cam, spot on. Leon had a hand in many of the goals yesterday.

[stonedpies]

Its good to see Rhyce get some recognition cos even tho some of his kicking was poor and he wasnt the lone ranger in this dept at least he had a go...... and for the 2nd week was one oof our best...

I agree with most posters that Lonie, Wlliams and OB must go back to Willy even Holland is struggling to keep a spot...

It wasnt good yesterday but i thought it was a tad better than last mondays effort....

Turnovers r killing us and the delivery into the fwd line was what hurt us the most....we had heaps of fwd line entries but the kicks to Tazza's leads were nothing short of atrocious...Taz had no hope!!!

Anyway we still live on to fight another day.....whether we can beat Carlton i dont know but crazily i give us a decent chance...

[Sultan of spin]

I don't know how people can put leon in our duds yesterday. Just about every time we scored a goal he had a hand in it, a tap on, a slick hand ball. FFS open your eyes.

Leon's form has been one of the tew positives to come out of the opening 2 rounds, He about the only guy that makes stuff happen everytime he touches it.

[Cannibal]

I think it's pretty easy for people to bag the coach, players and club when things are seemingly off track but, I really do wonder, whether some of you actually have lives outside of a ridiculous obsession with Collingwood? Pre-season, when I stated the obvious that West Coast were better side than we were, I was bagged for being pessimistic and not saying we'd win by ten goals. Now, we've lost two games, one in which we were clearly a six goal better side, and it's as if my pre-season comments were ridiculously OPTIMISTIC! Some of you guys have veered from the stupidly optimistic just a few weeks ago to the pathetically ridiculous now in your comments.

I note that so many of you have jumped on to the "effective disposal" issue. Now, I've read this morning's "Herald Sun" with it's "table" (deliberately in inverted commas) of "kicking culprits" (ditto). It's like the old question: is the glass half full or half empty? Johnno is slagged for "wasting" 8 kicks out of 26, but his 18 effective kicks are exactly the same number as Jimmy Clement's total DISPOSALS, and yet I see that everyone reckons Jimmy to be one of our (if not THE) best. Hello?!

I also see Rhyce Shaw on the list, 17 kicks 6 ineffective, and Julian Rowe, 12 kicks, 5 ineffective. But what about Licca? Where's Paul bloody Licuria? How come he's not on the list? Licca is one of our veteran players, a supposed team leader and yet, arguably one of the worst at sending helicopter kicks out of the centre. Grab it and kick it. What were Paul bloody Licuria's ineffective kick stats?

This whole story strikes me as being MM's "spin", to make yet another of his feeble excuses (ie blame the players) for one of the most miserable gameplans I've ever seen in 40 years of watching Collingwood. When the ball was kicked straight out of the backline (so often the result of superlative running by Rhyce Shaw) to Johnno to the forward line, we were catching Adelaide out as if they were standing still in quicksand. In my opinion, the players too often resort to a "chip" style because of sheer fear that Malthouse is going to rip them to shreds for making a mistake (which his post-match interview clearly did).

And that's why I reckon this to be an MM beat-up. Nothing about Paul Licuria and we all know how much MM loves Paul Licuria. So, how many ineffective and clanger kicks did Paul bloody Licuria have?

In any event, I say "F*ck making mistakes". Johnno still had 18 effective kicks and I didn't notice many of his 8 handballs going astray, so say 25 effective disposals. Rhyce Shaw, ditto, so probably 16 effective disposals. Both these guys (and Rowe) were at least moving the ball striaght up the ground more often than not. They STILL had more effective disposals individually than Burns, Williams AND Holland (together) had kicks! I'd far rather play blokes like Johnno, Shaw and Rowe, and risk mistakes, if they can do more with the ball individually than three other bloody players can in total.

Plus, Johnno laid a magnificent (and totally fair) bump on Goodwin and I didn't see any signs of shirking a contest from Shaw or Rowe either, whereas I DID see Shane O'Bree deliberately take a step to the side in the first quarter to avoid physical contact. Pure cowardice, in my opinion. I think it no conincidence that the blokes playing with courage and endeavour yesterday were the young blokes (Cam Cloke and Walker included). Clearly they are our future.

I also think that it's now crystal clear how integral to our game is Josh Fraser. What a beautiful kick in the teeth this is to all those who've mercilessly bagged Josh's rucking. Without him, are we reduced to a mere rabble, then? It looks to me like he's far, far more important to us than Bucks, Tarrant and Rocca combined!

I've also been arguing for two seasons now that our major problem lies up forward, ie in scoring goals, predominantly in playing Chris Tarrant at FF. How can the blokes in the middle have any confidence kicking to the guy when he's missing absolute sitters with greater regularity than Eddie gets his picture taken in the papers?! The guys in the middle are cracking themselves up getting the ball into the forward 50, only to see their work wasted.

And I reckon MM's defence of Tarrant by blaming the blokes kicking to him is a bit of a beat up, too. Tarrant has only ever played one reasonable season at full forward in the last four years. And maybe it's no coincidence that was the year we had a terrific forward line coached by none other than Terry Daniher, who so notoriously got on the wrong side of Malthouse by being critical of his gameplan. That was also the one year we played the ball consistently straight up the middle of the ground. But the main problem is that Tarrant DOES get the ball in scoring positions but then proceeds to waste nearly every one of them.

In my opinion, we should have won this game by six goals, and I think it no concidence that those six goals COULD have come from the boots of Tarrant and Rocca. 2-7 fer Christ's sake. 7-2 and we'd have bolted it in! And what would you all have been saying then??

Caracella is a great pick up. His 4-4 can be improved upon and I have no doubt it will. I'm no great fan of Shane Woewodin (another shirker, IMO) but he is a good mark and kick. It's time he was played up forward as well. There's every reason to expect we can get four goals a game from him too, on a fairly regular basis.

I thought there was a remarkable improvement on last week's game from the simple fact that Johnno spent most of his time in the middle instead of down back. He's wasted in defence. Too much ball getting and long kicking talent. This is the guy who almost won last season's Copeland on the back of his midfield performances, after all, isn't it? I also thought there was tremendous improvement through the inclusion of Julian Rowe and why he was missing last week hasn't yet been explained (and I don't expect any such forthright explanation from MM, either). Leon has shown signs over the last couple of weeks of having improved on last year to demand that he, also, play more in the middle. Lonie has had a couple of bad games but has talent to burn and deserves another chance, but not in the backline, either, on a wing. Ritchie Cole has not yet displayed the confidence he possessed last year but, IMO, just needs to settle down to play as we all know he can. Bringing back Nick Maxwell to the defence would be an enormous help, too.

I think the guys who should be dropped without any further hesitation are Williams, Burns, Holland and Presti. IMO, Scotty Burns is injured. He shouldn't be playing at all. If I'm right, get him fit first. Williams is a dead loss. He had several opportunities late last season, didn't take them and had been inexplicably offered more this season already and done absolutely nothing again. Dutch has done nothing in two weeks and never looks like doing much. He'd better turn something on at Willi or he faces the axe at the end of the season. Presti is a one-dimensional full back and has looked lost in the last two games. Against a Richo, he can be superlative, but is far too slow on the faster full-forwards. Having said that, neither Welsh, Stevens nor Perrie are all that quick either and managed just three goals between them, however, next week we come up against Fevola, who is going to be far too quick for Presti and I just can't see a place for him. He'll get his share of games this year, though, when the match-ups suit.

I have my reservations about the turnover king, Shane O'Bree but must admit he looked good when able to get loose and run the ball up a wing. I'd prefer Rowe and Lonie on the wings but will settle for Rowe playing in an on-ball role and O'Bree on a wing. I'll still shudder as to what he'll do with the ball but we'll need every speed merchant we can beg, borrow or steal next week.

Chad Morrison looked better playing more in the centre than on the backline. We know he is a good ball-getter and I'd persevere with him, but he needs to do more, far more, than he's shown to date. I don't like the look of that support on his knee, though.

Rather than getting carried away and threatening all sorts of mayhem, I'm taking the positives out of this game. The kids, predominantly, and make no mistake, despite having been in the club for five years, blokes like Fraser, Johnno, Shaw, Leon and Lonie are all still on the light side of 25. I haven't changed my mind on what I've said so often before; this isn't our year, 2006 will be, and it will come from these kids becoming the backbone of the side. We need to keep playing them but the veterans only if their form demands it. Otherwise, the vets can kick a ball around on the Williamstown foreshore for all I care, as they'll not take us anywhere this year.

[uuuuu..... The LoneSTAR]

I don't know how people can put leon in our duds yesterday. Just about every time we scored a goal he had a hand in it, a tap on, a slick hand ball. FFS open your eyes.

Leon's form has been one of the tew positives to come out of the opening 2 rounds, He about the only guy that makes stuff happen everytime he touches it.

LOVING him on the ball!!!!!

I'm not a serial-Shaw bagger myself - In fact, i think he is a prospect with 'potential' but as i said, just hasn't been reliable enough by foot and has been in the system for a few years now. I'm beginning to think 'potential' really is just a word!!!
I would however keep him in the 1st's all year and give him a real go with ground time. NO, i'm NOT saying we should use the rest of 2005 for experimenting,... its only round 2!!!

We have the 'potential' .... ....

[Meatpie]

can't possibly read all that, and I don't know if it's been mentioned yet but the amount of goals they scored through out mistakes in the back 50 was rediculous ! We cut them out and although a lot of our field kicking leaves a lot to be desired, we aren'tthat far off.

The only thing to add to this is RICHARD COLE - WHAT ARE YOU THINKING !!!!!!!!