Pre Match v Wee-Gals...all pearls of wisdom here please!

[Culprit]

Your missing my point, the clubs spin doctors have given us so much rhetoric about how good these kids are, yet none get selected. I am not saying select all of them, but you would think with all the crap that they have fed us via the media that one of them is good enough to get a game on the bench.

[Johnson#26]

I for one would like to see some young players play this week.

And they will, with the new extended bench this week. Egan, Fanning and Travis Cloke are all in the mix.

Your missing my point, the clubs spin doctors have given us so much rhetoric about how good these kids are, yet none get selected. I am not saying select all of them, but you would think with all the crap that they have fed us via the media that one of them is good enough to get a game on the bench.

They can't say that they are hopeless and won't make it. They will. We have prehaps our best crop ever ATM from the draft, and they will be played when ready. Last week we needed the win to get on track. Now the kids will slowly get a run.

[Cannibal]

Mods, this is good stuff! Sensible debate about kids vs winning makes this coming match a more intriguing one than normal. How about you sticky this thread and turn it into the pre-match?

[Cannibal]

Your missing my point, the clubs spin doctors have given us so much rhetoric about how good these kids are, yet none get selected. I am not saying select all of them, but you would think with all the crap that they have fed us via the media that one of them is good enough to get a game on the bench.

Culprit, you make a good point, however, MM and the players are keen to win the bloody comp. No matter how talented the kids are right now, they all need time to be ready to debut. Some will be more ready than others. If Egan, Fanning, C3, Heath Shaw and any others who have been named are good AND ready, they'll get their chances, even if not this week. Frankly, I'm still pessimistic about our chances against the Weagles but I'd rather try to win than play a kid who's not ready.

[Johnson#26]

Cannibal, why are you so pessimistic about our chances? Any particular reason?

[stoliboy]

We are being written off again... beautiful! I guess they have forgotten about the West Coast Eagles poor travelling record.

Ben

Match Preview: West Coast v Collingwood
4:02:15 PM Tue 22 February, 2005
Matt Burgan
http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=wizard&spg=game11
Game: West Coast v Collingwood

Where & when: Marrara Oval, Saturday, 8.10pm

Wizard Cup record: West Coast 18-22, Collingwood 27-36

Sidelined: West Coast ruckman Dean Cox is set to miss the rest of the Wizard Home Loans Cup with a cheekbone fracture sustained against Fremantle in last round's season opener. First-year Eagle Brad Smith will be out for the entire 2005 season after injuring his knee before the start of the pre-season competition while Travis Gaspar remains on the indefinite list due to his debilitating foot problems. Phil Matera is out for three weeks with a shoulder injury, while Zach Beeck (ankle) and Andrew McDougall (hip) will be out for another week. Collingwood skipper Nathan Buckley remains on the sidelines for a further three weeks due to a hamstring injury while midfielder/forward Alan Didak has knee soreness and will be out for two matches. New recruit Blake Caracella will miss the clash with a shoulder problem and Tarkyn Lockyer faces a test due to a finger injury. Billy Morrison (knee), Sean Rusling (hamstring soreness) and Adam Iacobucci (hamstring soreness) are out for two weeks while Tom Davidson (achilles) and rookie Ben Davies (groin soreness) will miss three matches.

The story so far: West Coast overcame its home-town rival Fremantle in its opening Wizard Cup encounter last week to gain a 13-point victory at Subiaco. All-Australian Chad Fletcher, Cox and Brownlow Medallist Chris Judd were all among the Eagles best players, while emerging youngster Beau Waters booted three majors. Collingwood produced a fine last quarter comeback in its first Wizard Cup fixture against Richmond to win by seven points. The Magpies trailed by 25 points at the nine-minute mark of in the last term, yet the Pies were inspired by Tristen Walker and Andrew Williams during that period. James Clement, Chris Tarrant and Leon Davis were among the best for Collingwood.

We think: An interesting clash looms in Darwin for this second round Wizard Cup clash. It's always a tough one to call this early in the season, but based on the strengths of the lists, West Coast should have the edge. Despite the loss of Cox, who remains underrated despite finishing third in the club champion last year, the Eagles have plenty to like about their game. West Coast has a good blend of youth and experience, flair and discipline and an awesome midfield, the envy of many clubs. The Eagles are one of the sides to watch in 2005 and should advance over the Pies in this fixture.

[Joel]

Based on the strengths of the lists? We beat them over here last year when we were below full strength and they were at full strength. We were missing a number of players. On top of that, Judd et al. (where their strength is) won't be playing. Pffftt, bloody AFL site.

I'm not saying we will win, but that statement is dumb.

[Cannibal]

Cannibal, why are you so pessimistic about our chances? Any particular reason?

I'm being realistic. Last week, I said I had reservations about our goal-kicking and was on the money, because we had stacks of opportunities but didn't convert and it almost cost us the game. We're not as good as some people think we are, although I am delighted at the difference in the club's attitude towards this comp and the progress we've made since this time last year in developing a side with more experience and greater depth.

However, the Weagles ALWAYS give us problems, they thrashed us in the Wiz Cup last season, the game is in Darwin so the conditions will better suit them than us, I think they are a better balanced side than we are and I STILL have reservations about our ability to kick match-winning totals! It's a reservation that isn't going to disappear until we consistently post big scores.

From memory, we set the yardstick at a minimum 15 goals per game last year and barely ever achieved it. Last week, counting the nine-pointers, we did kick 15 goals but we also kicked 16 behinds. The reality is that we barely scraped home against a poor side who had us on the ropes halfway through the last quarter. We were lucky. Good sides, and I class the Weagles as a good side, will punish us for our profligacy if we repeat it against them.

It's as simple as that. Until I can see that we are going to consistently kick big scores, I will remain realistic about our chances in any game.

[3rd degree]

Oh you gumpy little man cannibal - give 'em a break it was the first round. In The first week of the wizard cup most sides kicking is not up to scratch - sure I agree we have a lot of work to on our general skills, but you got to a bit more positive mate! Look how much matty lokan is smiling and he's probably going to get dropped like a hot donut!

[hoggy]

Based on the strengths of the lists? We beat them over here last year when we were below full strength and they were at full strength. We were missing a number of players. On top of that, Judd et al. (where their strength is) won't be playing. Pffftt, bloody AFL site.

I'm not saying we will win, but that statement is dumb.

They were missing the best player on their list...

CHAD MORRISON

[PiesFan]

Cannibals skepticism towards our ability to kick a winning total does have some merit. However, this inability does not result from a lack of structure. We have the tools to kick 15+ a game, its merely our inefficient accuracy that costs us.

However, look at the Weagles team. They do not have a forward structure that should trouble us. Even if Matera was playing, he isnt a guy who can take pack marks against a good solid defensive line. The only way the weagles can beat us is if they can manufacture enough goals from the midfield. I dont see their flimsy forward line troubling our defense, unless their midfield has an absolute field day against us. But from the looks of it, their midfield stars wont be making the trip.

As long as we kick accurately, im confident we can get over the line due to our superior forward options and solid defense.

[chicken wing]

I agree with PiesFan...the eagles have had a poor forward line for a few years. True, they now have some emerging talls, and the ever-annoying Matera, but they are still inconsistent and won't pose too many problems for our defenders. Especially since their weakened midfield will result in poor supply to the forwards. Their defence isn't brilliant either, so our forwards should have a field day.

Lokan out. Egan, Maxwell and Lockyer/B. Shaw in.

[DaVe86]

Yes looking at the eagles team, there backline and forward line are huge weaknesses. Tarrant and Rocca hav every chance to play blinders. The danger is young players like seaby and mcdougall getting under our guards and kicking bags. Therefore id be looking at playing walker down back this week for an extra tall in defence and definately either be adding j.clo or maxwell as spare defenders as we are allowed extra players on the bench.

I would also play fraser up forward this week and alternate him in the ruck with richards and forward with cam cloke. I think we can really push eagles for talls. The danger is west coast has a good fast midfield. Winning the ball out of there will be essential. Therefore i think obree should definately play as he is a good ball winner at worst. Id also like to see Rowe spend more time on field and leave leon up forward as i thought we lacked a good crumber up forward last week.

Im not sure if judd is playing, but if he is, id like to see rheece get a game on him this week as he did last year with success. I think judds danger is all pace, if u can keep up with him u can tie him down. I wouldnt be rushing in players like didak or tarkyn this week even if they are ready or not to play. Also very interested to see how morrison shapes up against his old club.

In terms of the argument of young players vs experience, i think we do hav a good bunch of youngstars in the team however they do not get much game time. Malthouse last week seemed a bit reluctant to play them as the game was tight and turned to his experienced players to win the game. And it worked. However this week id like to see Rowe, Cloke, Morrison, Egan, King all get more game time.

[nitric]

Great Post, Rand Corp.

This has turned into a great thread.

Great!

I can't hide the feeling anymore that this is a seminal year for MM.

There may be no tomorrow.

[Johnson#26]