Transgender athletes back on the agenda

[stui magpie]

When I first saw about this I was fuming, but then I did some more reading. This boxing one is a little more nuanced than a biological bloke deciding to become a woman. The Algerian fighter, I understand, has always idenitifed as female. Apparently she failed some test which showed she had a Y chromesome, which was why the world boxing body kicked her out, but the IOF has since kicked out the boxing body for corruption and, unlike most other sporting bodies, they don't have real rules about this so she was allowed to compete.

I suspect that the Algerian may be one of those small number of people who's biology isn't clear, like that runner who looks female, was raised female but has internal undescended testes that blurs the line.

It will be interesting to see what happens, apparently her next opponent has already come out and said she doesn't care if she's a man or woman, she'll fight her.

Just for interest, her Wiki page n extract,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imane_Khelif

Khelif grew up in a rural village in Tiaret Province, in northwestern Algeria.[3] She originally played football before switching to boxing. In her early years, she had to commute to a neighboring village to attend training sessions, and sold scrap metal to afford the bus fare.[4] She mentioned that her father initially did not allow her to participate in sports because "he did not approve of girls boxing".[

You have to feel for her, it's not like this is her fault. Imagine being raised a girl, playing sport as a girl, then as the result of some test, being banned from your sport and having people call you a Man and a cheat.

[stui magpie]

@pietillidie

Ptiddy, your link is paywalled. Try this. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/01/spor ... index.html

[pietillidie]

^Good insight, cheers. So, that's another case where the biology is providing all of the complexity on its own. Not to mention the administrative failures of boxing and the fact the opponent didn't make anything political of it. Again, not every conundrum in the big bad world is manufactured.

Honestly, you can't trust anything you read or hear without doing a damned research paper these days. I purposely avoid these topics because, in the end, it often turns out as the CNN article reports.

[think positive]

I do get that if true, But ‘she’ , im not convinced, is still a minority, and failed the test, and is biologically a male,

That woman in tears has worked hard for how many years and her dreams died is 46 seconds. At the hands of someone genetically not valid.

Has anyone noticed it’s always us women who have to make allowances?

Any medal will be as valid as the 100m men’s swimming gold! Aussies were robbed.

[pietillidie]

^TBF, people with non-traditional genders would miss out on far more of everything. But I'm not saying allowing her to compete was right; I don't know enough about the sport and this specific case. That said, some people are born with, say, feet that give them an advantage in swimming, or had gazillion-dollar training and facilities, so it all kind of unravels when you look too closely. I'd hate to have to make decisions on these things; it would do my head in trying to be perfectly fair!

What happened to the Aussies in the 100m men's?

[swoop42]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/boxing/ ... 5jz1r.html

Youcef Zaghba, who grew up in the same area as Khelif and has known her since childhood, posted images of the boxer as a young girl on social media in a move to quash any claims from people questioning whether she was born a female.

He said uneducated claims on social media that Khelif was born a male and was now fighting as a female were offensive. “It’s not possible for her to be a man. It’s impossible. The idea is not possible in Algeria, that Imane is not a girl,” he said.

[think positive]

^TBF, people with non-traditional genders would miss out on far more of everything. But I'm not saying allowing her to compete was right; I don't know enough about the sport and this specific case. That said, some people are born with, say, feet that give them an advantage in swimming, or had gazillion-dollar training and facilities, so it all kind of unravels when you look too closely. I'd hate to have to make decisions on these things; it would do my head in trying to be perfectly fair!

What happened to the Aussies in the 100m men's?

then we need a different category that does not rip genetic woman off.

Beaten by 1/2 a body length by a Chinese swimmer, took 1/2 sec off the world record in a slow pool. Bullshit! Just like in Lisa curry’s time, they didn’t have a test for the drug, that’s all.

[think positive]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/boxing/ ... 5jz1r.html

Youcef Zaghba, who grew up in the same area as Khelif and has known her since childhood, posted images of the boxer as a young girl on social media in a move to quash any claims from people questioning whether she was born a female.

He said uneducated claims on social media that Khelif was born a male and was now fighting as a female were offensive. “It’s not possible for her to be a man. It’s impossible. The idea is not possible in Algeria, that Imane is not a girl,” he said.

Not convinced. Failed a testosterone test, and for (mates with) sake just look at the body, face, all of it.

[stui magpie]

Good article. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/02/spor ... index.html

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) however strongly supports her participation in the 2024 Games, with IOC spokesperson Mark Adams saying she was “born female, was registered female, lived her life as a female, boxed as a female, has a female passport.”

“This is not a transgender case,” Adams added.

[think positive]

"WHAT IS A DSD?

Differences of Sexual Development are a group of rare conditions involving genes, hormones and reproductive organs. Some people with DSDs are raised as female but have XY sex chromosomes, blood testosterone levels in the male range and the ability to use testosterone circulating within their bodies.

WHY IS THAT AN ISSUE IN SPORT?

Women's sports categories exist in most sports in recognition of the clear advantage that going through male puberty gives an athlete.

That advantage is not just through higher testosterone levels but also in muscle mass, skeletal advantage and faster twitch muscle.

In combat sports such as boxing, this can be a serious safety issue."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... onent.html

heres another who couldn't compete in his real gender

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ed-replace

maybe the gutless cheating could fight each other for a medal

I mean its ok though, its only natural born females who get cheated, minorities can go celebrate their fake wins! lets hope Kamala is not the last female who gets into power.

fuking men

[think positive]

On the news “passport says woman”.

If genetically modified individuals are ok to perform as women,
Bring onthe steroids for men!

[stui magpie]

Khelif appears to be a DSD, which IMHO means she should not be competing, particularly in combat sports, against women because of the elevated Testosterone. It's a banned substance by WADA for a reason.

Having said that, it seems she was born with female genitalia, was registered at birth as female and grew up female. She has a vagina and breasts and rightly considers herself female. How would you feel growing up female, training hard to be an athlete and then having someone tell you, "Sorry, according to the test we did, you're biologically a bloke". After the incredulous WTF moment, anyone would be pushing back, hard. None of this is her fault and again, IMHO, she deserves some sympathy and not the demonisation she's getting. This kind of stuff is fairly rare and often not picked up even in first world countries unless it's specifically tested for.

This whole thing has been handled extremely poorly.

[think positive]

I saw a doco on a girl who thought she was a boy. Turned out she was born with both, the parents chose because the dangly bits were unimpressive. I have no idea what this case is, either of them, however breasts? Where? They both look, walk, are built like male athletes, quack quack. Again I have no idea, most of us don’t however I wouldn’t trust the government of either country to be truthful. I actually shouldn’t have an opinion either way, it shouldn’t be an issue if correct and fair rules are applied as per the laws of sporting bodies because

Testosterone levels should have ruled both of them out. I don’t give a **** what their passports say.

How about if their opponents got on the supplements and matched them? Their body chemistry and structure would still be inferior for sport (we are made for babies remember) so very different. But they would be banned. What is the difference?

No not their fault, also not the fault of natural born genetic females who have worked years and years to qualify.

Being an Olympic athlete is not a right, it is earned and there are rules. Why should those rules be different for anyone?


If these are test cases what will that mean for woman’s sport?

I know how hard and how long my sister trained, a low profile sport, she worked full time, my parents helped her get to world championships and international qualifying events. 2 olympics, 2 commonwealth games bronze medals, it’s not 8 years it’s from the age of about 10! And she played tennis before that!

Stiff shit AJ you’re playing a person with male biology. Kiss all that work, sweat, injuries and operations, tens of thousands of dollars you put in to represent your country goodbye because you don’t stand a damn chance. But hey you made a minority happy!

What about AJs rights? Isn’t she entitled to fair play?

[Durka]

Your comments above concerning the Chinese swimmer indicate that you think Australian athletes are clean. Are you really that naive? Not everyone reacts the same to PED's, some receive far more benefit from them than others, just as one drug will help one cancer patient but not the next. There are many prominent Australian athletes that use PED's but in the media have been anti-drugs. It's all a show for the sporting public. If you've got the means to get the correct medical supervision and to put the protocols in place to avoid testing positive, you do it.

[Durka]

PS. Do you know which country does that best? I will give you its initials. U.S.A.