Pre-Match: Collingwood V AFL Swanettes - All comments here

Post by **Cam** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:25 pm

Pluck The Swans

ozboy · Post by **ozboy** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:17 am

yes good one Cam aka "Master Of Space & Time"

The Swans gameplan in the Roos tenure (2003 and into this year), continues to be driven by a smallish but extremely mobile back six (admittedly that's mostly through major injury this year rather than choice), all of whom are more than willing to run the ball through CHB lines, mostly well beyond the centre. Raw speed is their major asset - Leo Barry, Tadgh Kenelly, Paul Bevan and Jarrod Crouch. It is not uncommon to see the likes of Jude Bolton and Paul Williams push far far back into defence, just to join part of this wave of runners when the turnover comes.

Also, there is an obsessive culture of handball too - it's not uncommon to see the ball travel from the goalsqaure through to the centre using 4 or 5 players in a chain of precision handballing, with someone like Maxfield of Williams finally putting his boot through the ball at the end, in many cases bypassing CHF straight down to O'Loughlin camped in the goalsqaure (or else going short for Barry Hall if he has a large break on the lead). What the Swans currently lack in tall timber, they make up for in pace.

This ability (or obsession) of hitting target by hand before foot is both a strength and weakness for them. The system works but it aint infallible, and pressure pressure and more pressure sees a stuff-up occur more often than not. And once the confidence start to go in this gameplan, the Swans usually resort to the possesion chip-kick game down the flanks, and that will suit us fine. Richmond (a team with lesser skills) applied the pressure and won. St. Kilda (a team with superior skills) were the complete opposite, far too lazy and not suprisingly they lost.

The key to victory against the Swans is always dependent on our forwards applying off-the-ball pressure IMO. The Swans handballing works better than any other team in the league I believe, it's like clockwork against a lazy set of forwards who are not pressing their men or falling asleep as soon as the ball is turned over. Barry Hall will mark anything put in front of him on the lead as he is suprisingly quick off the mark. As will Ryan O'Keefe. And whatever Nick Davis marks on the 50m arc is a pretty good chance of being converted given his accuracy at that range.

So you just cannot allow the Swans to resort to these massed waves of half back runners, taking the ball through the centre line - they will hit the leading forward targets more often than not. We need OUR mobile gun forwards, the Didaks, the Neon Leons, the Lokans, all to pay extra extra extra attention to their defensive game this week - shut down Paul Bevan, shut down Jarrod Crouch (another major speed demon who runs lines), shut down Tadgh Kenelly - the longer the ball can remain in our scoring zone, the more we can exploit what is quite an undersized Swans back half. We need unselfish run-with players on Maxfield and Bolton (the 2 most creative Swans at the moment), we need 2 stopping players who don't care if they rack up possessions, as long as they shut-down these direct opponents.

That IMO is our biggest key to victory.

The other thing is that someone has to be given an accountable task on Goodes, who even though he is carrying an injury, continues to play the CHB role like his coach did (Paul Roos '96) ie. not afraid to back himself on a run forward to about the attacking 50m arc - and just like Paul Roos in his prime, Goodes doesn't announce it either! He waits for his opponent to be caught up in play, rucking contests, whatever it takes, the moment he is alone or left to float as an extra man across half-back, he will sneak around the wing on the open-side of the ground, and be a loose unaccounted target on the turnover - happens a lot, results in goals either directly or by freeing up Hall/O'Loughlin. If someone is given a direct instruction to run-with him, avoid the loose man in defence tactic, he can't do this.

I reckon if we do these things well, our forwards can easily kick a winning score against an undersized defence.

What do you think?

Post by **Cam** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:50 am

At the SCG we'd be gorn, but at the big Stadium... i think we are a real chance, the Swans record there is not that flash i think.

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:05 am

Current forecast for Sydney is dry weather throughout next week. Temps in the mid to high teens, minimum around 10. Looks likely to be dry for the game, then.

We'll need tall timber to take advantage of their lack of height and quick moving of the ball plus a complete shut-down of their ball movers by our run-with players.

I'm starting to think Shacks and Rowe would be good chances to play, Johnno needs to be in the centre all game, Fraser at FF (which will take Goodes right back and minimise his running out of defence because Frase has the speed to go with him and drop back quickly if there's a turnover), Rocca/Cam along the HF line, Lonie on a wing, Cole/Shaw on the HB line to run the ball out with Jimmy, maybe even Wakes on Hall as he likes to run out of defence as well.

I don't think conditions will suit Woey but don't know if MM would drop him but unless it's raining, I really can't see him doing well on the big ground in dry conditions. Similar story with MCG.

Either MM goes with exactly the same team as against Melbourne or he makes a couple of crunch decisions to give the speedy kids a go. I know which way I am leaning.

molloymagic · Post by **molloymagic** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:43 pm

Well i'm going to this game and just wanted to know where everyone will be sitting? I'm in the collingwood supporter area. *lol* I know this isn;t exactly the point of this topic but just curious to learn where people will be sitting

btw,where is everyone staying while ya up there?.

I'm just looking forward to going to sydney where i've never been and seeing them train in a different place(do they have training session where the public of sydney etc can see them like they do in melbourne?).

cheers and GO PIES!!.

Johnson#26 · Post by **Johnson#26** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:22 pm

With their huge injury list we should win well. They don't play all that well at TS and with Bucks better for a game in and Pebbs to return we should win well. Pies by 23 points.

*More to come*

Magpie_Dan · Post by **Magpie_Dan** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:24 pm

Dunno where ill be stayin! I dont give a shit if its the back of my VL but ill be going to the game and hopefully sitting in the cs! Everyone who is going to Sydney that posts on Nicks should all organise to meet in 1 spot at a time where everyone can make it! What do use think?

freddie foxx · Post by **freddie foxx** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:38 pm

great post oz boy. Whoever suggested that Buckley would be far more effective with Rocca back is on the money. Its a win/lose situation with Buckley not in the forward line. But with burns, licuria, woewodin and Mcgough all in very good form he will not be in demand as much.

The break is a godsend for us, our form was very good last week, we just seemed to tire in the latter stages. The break will be refreshing for the midfield, and they will come out very fresh to play.

Pies by 342 points.

spads · Post by **spads** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:21 pm

Cam wrote:At the SCG we'd be gorn, but at the big Stadium... i think we are a real chance, the Swans record there is not that flash i think.

_____________SCG_________TELSTRA STADIUM
Capacity: _____43,386_______ 70,000
Length:_______147m________ 158.7m
Width:_______ 136m_________ 118m
Surface Area:__ 15702m2_____ 14708m2

The SCG is shorter, but I think the real figure that matters is surface are. That is the actual playing area, and that's what determines player spacing and gameplan success. The SCG actually has a larger surface area.

Post by **Donny** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:28 pm

This is it folks.

We remain contenders, one win away from 8th. or we drop back amongst the also rans - Bulldogs, Tigers and Hawks.

It's that simple.

Post by **Cam** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:55 pm

No way Spad. A kick from the centre of the SCG lands in the goalsquare. A kick on a longer ground like the Stadium lands between the square and the 50, big difference for defenders. A shorter, wider ground encourages visiting teams to go wide if they aren't thinking, whereas the swans go direct, especially when they get on their famous 'rolls'. A long ground means you have to go more direct, but it takes more possessions to do so.

Johnson#26 · Post by **Johnson#26** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:37 pm

Must win. Without Fosdike, Buchannon, Williams etc we must win.

Johnson must be in the middle all match and give Lones a licence to run. The return of Pebbs should be a help to Cam Cloke and Frase. How do we stop Goodes? Josh Fraser is the man. He is fast, skilled and has a good leap. We are a good chance.

spads · Post by **spads** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:44 pm

Cam wrote:No way Spad. A kick from the centre of the SCG lands in the goalsquare. A kick on a longer ground like the Stadium lands between the square and the 50, big difference for defenders. A shorter, wider ground encourages visiting teams to go wide if they aren't thinking, whereas the swans go direct, especially when they get on their famous 'rolls'. A long ground means you have to go more direct, but it takes more possessions to do so.

Stadium Australia isnt very long. And its very narrow. It congests play a lot. That means its conducive to flooding and games controlled by quick run. I think that favours Sydney.

Do you honestly think that 11.7 m, so each side of the ground is 6m longer makes a difference in terms of the number of possesions required to progress the ball from one end to the other? I think you exaggerate the difference.

But perhaps the narrower ground will stop us from chipping sideways so much.

Post by **Cam** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:17 pm

You watch the game and see how different it is to ones at the SCG.

JLC · Post by **JLC** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:24 am

Our form against Melbourne shows that we can match it with the best teams in the competition even without our two best forwards. We had Melbourne on the ropes yet couldnt deliver the knock out blow. Compare that form to the effort of the Bombers and you have to question whether Essendon deserve to play finals. They are utter crap.

The ONE thing Collingwood has to do and when we do this we will win many more games than we lose and that is play out the ENTIRE quarter. If the game stopped at the 20 minute mark of each quarter i would think we would have won at least 3 or 4 more games. Maybe its fitness or maybe its mental but whatever it is it needs to be addressed.

If the players cant run out a full game this week they need a kick in the pants seeing that they have had a week off.

My only worry with Sydney is finding a match up for Goodes if he plays up forward. I think our midfield has been doing well and our backline has been fantastic for most of the year especially Clement. The only worry as usual is the forward line and the ability to kick a winning score. Will depend on who is picked so will have to wait until later in the week.

Pies should win this game by about 3 to 4 goals

jlc

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Pre-Match: Collingwood V AFL Swanettes - All comments here