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[David]

^ It seems your deflecting by making the problem the responsibility of everyone else but the individual.

It's time people take responsibility for their actions - not blame social inequality, racism, left wing politics, and mental disorders. These are all excuses.

Individuals, including parents, need to be held accountable. Actions have consequences. It's time for people to be taught that again.

This is the quintessential American attitude: individuals are ultimately responsible for every good or bad thing that happens, and there are no structural considerations that shape people’s lives, circumstances or decisions. It’s precisely why the gun problem in the US is what it is: many Americans genuinely believe that you can flood a society with lethal weapons and it’ll be fine because the good guys will use them responsibly and the bad guys will be caught and punished. You can have a gun and it’s totally fine, but leave it on the table for your mentally disturbed teenage son to pick up and use and you’re an accessory to murder. The answer is to keep expanding the web of culpability and filling the prisons until you get a peaceful society. Any day now.

It really is a horribly alienating and inhuman way of looking at the world. The cult of freedom and personal responsibility has quite a lot to answer for.

[think positive]

No, the gun problem is due to the hold the NRA has over the politicians in Washington.

A lot actually dont think its fine, im not doing numbers, I cant speak to everyone!! but on every one of my 7 visits to the states, I've asked the question. And a lot feel that they have to have a gun for protection, because nobody is going to defend them, and yet, most I speak to dont have them.

Tell me, when you visit do you have these conversations?

[stui magpie]

^

I've been twice and never raised the topic, but my general feeling is you're right. Most city dwellers who own guns aren't sporting shooters, they buy them for protection. Women are just as likely to have a small hand gun in their purse rather than a can of Mace when they're out walking and if a home intruder is likely to be armed, then you need to be armed too.

It's a sick circle.

[What'sinaname]

David is sorta right. Gun ownership is due to a massive distrust of government and the right of the individual to defend themselves. They do t need police or the military. Individuals taking responsibility for themselves.

The NRA are smart to lean on gun control as being a push for the government to reduce individuals’ freedom.

Land of the free and shall not be infringed are worth fighting for. Losing those risks the government overstepping their role - much like Dan Andrews did in lockdown. Ever wondered why American laughed at our Covid response.

We let the government progressively take away freedoms.

[think positive]

yes it is, and until they do something about their political corruption, they are doomed.

mental health, cost of living vs salary, unexplainable health system, I love the place but no way would I live there. and with the current unrest, ive no plans to go back to the lower states. I thought trump would make the people realise how $@&^# they are, but instead it just made divides greater.

[What'sinaname]

You might have to look interstellar to find somewhere with no political corruption.

If you're got a decent job and not reliant on Government handouts, then America is a great place to live.

If you're poor, but have a great work ethic, then America is a great place to be.

[David]

David is sorta right. Gun ownership is due to a massive distrust of government and the right of the individual to defend themselves. They do t need police or the military. Individuals taking responsibility for themselves.

The NRA are smart to lean on gun control as being a push for the government to reduce individuals’ freedom.

Land of the free and shall not be infringed are worth fighting for. Losing those risks the government overstepping their role - much like Dan Andrews did in lockdown. Ever wondered why American laughed at our Covid response.

We let the government progressively take away freedoms.

And we looked on in disbelief as bungled and ideologically driven US government policies (particularly at state level) led to over a million deaths in that country.

Perhaps there’s a midpoint between our approach and America’s. There are some things I admire about their approach, such as the bill of rights. But out of the two, I can say I feel much more comfortable living here.

[Magpietothemax]

You might have to look interstellar to find somewhere with no political corruption.

If you're got a decent job and not reliant on Government handouts, then America is a great place to live.

If you're poor, but have a great work ethic, then America is a great place to be.

What?? Minimum wage in US is $7.25/hour. But yeah, with a great work ethic the US is a great place to be.

[What'sinaname]

People with a great work ethic don't remain on min wage for long.

[Magpietothemax]

Losing those risks the government overstepping their role - much like Dan Andrews did in lockdown. Ever wondered why American laughed at our Covid response.

We let the government progressively take away freedoms.

Andrews only imposed lockdowns because he feared the horrific backlash which would have destroyed his government had he not.
All over the media at the time were images of bodies piling up waiting to be buried in the US, and in Europe, as hospital systems collapsed. Authorities in Australia were terrified at the prospect of a collapse of the health system, and had the time to implement prophylactic measures to suppress transmission.
To claim that " we let the government take away our freedoms" is absurd. Due to their fear of a popular explosion, the authorities in Australia implemented lockdowns - which were far less stringent than they should have been if in fact you were attempting to eliminate the virus - which were actually extremely successful. The mortality rate in Australia (and NZ, where similiar policies were pursued, and of course in China ) were a beacon of hope to the entire world: meanwhile in the US, over a million died (now the figure of course is far higher), where lockdowns were far more limited and restrictions were torn up far more quickly.
Only extremely disoriented/psychopathic rightwing elements demanded the lifting of lockdowns and restrictions. But in so doing, they were merely expressing the secret desires of the Andrews government, which as a representative of big business, was under huge pressure to get rid of lockdowns because they were an impediment to profit. It was very telling when Andrews joined forces with the arch right wing Perritot to work together in dismantling all anti-covid measures.

[What'sinaname]

David is sorta right. Gun ownership is due to a massive distrust of government and the right of the individual to defend themselves. They do t need police or the military. Individuals taking responsibility for themselves.

The NRA are smart to lean on gun control as being a push for the government to reduce individuals’ freedom.

Land of the free and shall not be infringed are worth fighting for. Losing those risks the government overstepping their role - much like Dan Andrews did in lockdown. Ever wondered why American laughed at our Covid response.

We let the government progressively take away freedoms.

And we looked on in disbelief as bungled and ideologically driven US government policies (particularly at state level) led to over a million deaths in that country.

Perhaps there’s a midpoint between our approach and America’s. There are some things I admire about their approach, such as the bill of rights. But out of the two, I can say I feel much more comfortable living here.

The States put the onus of responsibility back on the individual. You could still wear masks and social distance. But, at the end of the day, Australia recorded 450,000 cases per million population compared to 333,000 per million in the US.

Yes, more US people died, but that probably more about their health system and people being unable to access free / cheap medical help.

[Magpietothemax]

The States put the onus of responsibility back on the individual. You could still wear masks and social distance. But, at the end of the day, Australia recorded 450,000 cases per million population compared to 333,000 per million in the US.

Yes, more US people died, but that probably more about their health system and people being unable to access free / cheap medical help.

And that is why your entire argument actually represents a call for the return to the Middle Ages, or even before.
Public health, in its essence, is a social institution. Mankind built up the principles of public health over centurues of human social and scientific development. Public health precisely is based on the understanding that health is not an issue for the individual, but that it requires the resources and co-ordination of social knowledge and infrastructure to improve the health of all individuals within a society.
To make decisions regarding the spread of infectious disease within society a matter of "individual responsiblity" is turning the wheel of time back to barbarism.

[David]

The States put the onus of responsibility back on the individual. You could still wear masks and social distance. But, at the end of the day, Australia recorded 450,000 cases per million population compared to 333,000 per million in the US.

Yes, more US people died, but that probably more about their health system and people being unable to access free / cheap medical help.

Yep, the health system that works according to the principle that it’s the individual’s responsibility to look after (and pay to maintain) their own health.

It’s almost as if these competing philosophies have direct outcomes that can be measured and compared…

[Magpietothemax]

People with a great work ethic don't remain on min wage for long.

[stui magpie]

If you're got a decent job and not reliant on Government handouts, then America is a great place to live.

If you're poor, but have a great work ethic, then America is a great place to be.

In the first situation, most places are great places to live. I'd still put Australia over the US, but splitting hairs.

In the second situation, Nah. Even with a great work ethic you could be on shit money for your lifetime, particularly with the decline of manufacturing jobs. If you live in a big city and come from a poor background, your papers are basically stamped. You're fvcked. Yes there's exceptions, but I'd much rather come from a poor background here than in the USA.