No team has made the top four with more than seven losses in 14 years. We now play a 23-game season, so you can generally say that a team needs to be 16-7 or better for the double chance.
That means, if Collingwood wants to make the top four, they’ll have to go 16-4 from here.
Post Match. Saints punish Pies . All comments.
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Jezza
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Fly's presser:
How did you address the players?
How did you address the players?
What did you what the players to learn about themselves. What do you hope they come to you with and how they review their performances?"I gave them a bit of time to sit in it to be honest. A bit of self-reflection doesn't hurt anyone. I let them sit in it a bit longer than what we normally would. The reality and I think everybody out there can see it is that there's just fundamental stuff that we're doing really poorly, and things that are a little bit uncharacteristic to our game but also from our experienced player. I addressed that and talked to that. Then the small margins. You look at all the numbers, they're slightly off here, there's a little bit less in centre clearances, there's a little bit less in tackle efficiency. Inside 50s were a bit of an issue tonight compared to other games. It's just little things. It's little things that just mean big things. We've taken great pride in the last period of doing the little things really well so that was some of the messaging".
When you say you addressed the fact that it's 'fundamentals', how did you address that and how do you address it?"Well, 'individually what can I do'. If there's something going wrong in the world I look at what I've contributed to that first. I look in and they go alright 'how can I fix this? How do I do better? How did I prepare the players? Were they set up to succeed?' I look internally and then I start to go 'what else? what else can we control right now?' I can't go into their minds and bodies to find out what they were thinking but a bit of time to self can be a good thing".
In what way?"Firmly".
What about the issue around points from turnovers. How did that compare from last week?"I think you can see the fundamental skills are just sloppy, rusty, clunky. Just give away goals. The little things that you take great pride in. I was just pointed. Let's get busy. Let's get busy on these things that we're really good at because for parts of tonight whether you want to look through the optimistic lens, there was a lot more like us tonight than there has been in the last two weeks. I want the players to hear that, but also a 15 point margin it doesn't take much to get those little things wrong and here we are sitting [here] addressing these things".
I know you're not looking to make excuses but is the shorter lead into this season for you guys relative to the Saints tonight or Sydney last week, has that played a factor at all?"Yeah it was 12 goals. It's a big number. You see the ones we can control. There's a lot of fundamental errors that we're making from experienced players that you wouldn't expect. We're all in this together, so we've got to get to work on those things. It's not a great part of our game right now".
Sorry, I mean over the pre-season"No, the Saints had a 5-day break and we had a 6 [day break]".
What about the touch with those fumbles. What's that due to?"No. I keep saying this week to week. We're fitter now then we have been in my time. There's probably 40 odd guys on our list and nearly every one of the guys had done the work. That's not just running. We've got an elite high performance team. Jarrod Wade is incredible at what he does and we're very lucky to have him. They've done the work, there's just this little bit right now and I'll show you some footage where the ball goes and there's three of us and it's in the middle and it's like 'no, you get it. No, you get it. Nah nah, I'd rather have three guys get it rather than one waiting for you to get it'. There's a bit of hesitation in this flow 'no, that's my ball'. I want to see a bit more of that. 'Get out of the way and I'll get the ball'".
I think it's clear who you're talking about with the fumbles. Are they talking to you about it? Do they know why it's happening?"Yeah, it's there to be seen. We do hours of fundamental work. It's actually the stable part of our training, it's the fundamentals. I'd be surprised if others do as much as we do. There's a level of 'right, who's fumbling more and not handling the ball well?' There's levels of that we're questioning ourselves around. It's hard to answer. We've got some of our best player and some of the most decorated players you've seen in the game that are somewhat...'we're all in this'".
Your free kick count was 30-15 against you guys? Is that a function of you guys not getting the fundamentals right?"No, I haven't had a deeper conversation around that because tonight it was probably more obvious than recent weeks. It's been a consistent theme for us. This is reality of what we've got in our walls. We've got guys that just turn up to work. I'd love you guys to come and see it. I tell you every week, we prepare really well. There's a level right now of maybe 'we've got to get a run on the board here' and there's added layers to that so maybe that could be real. We've got 7 days. We've got to get ourselves right and pick ourselves up and it's time to get busy. Time to get busy".
But you couldn't take a trick tonight?"That's a big number isn't it, and the crowd sort of felt that and we love them for that".
Ordinarily you would look at selection. You're talking about your most senior and experienced players making these fundamental errors. How bold do you get at selection?"There's been games where we get the ledger on our side. Some of that stuff is real. We're tackling too high. We're giving away arms in the ruck contest and coming into the contest high. There's some real ones, so again that's fundamentals for us. Our tackling percentage was 55% or something, so that's a poor number. Again, we comeback to the basics of the game and that's where we've got to start. Start right at the basics because that's where we always start. Again I repeat myself here, we've been really good in this part of our game but right now it's holding us back".
You won the hitouts 47-13, but you lose the clearances. What's going on there?"Selection will be done at its right place later in the week. I think in terms of where we want to go and get to, there's always an opportunity to bring a Harvey Harrison types into our team with their energy and youthfulness and hunger. Hunger is a good thing isn't it. Guys that are less exposed if you like. I thought Billy Frampton had his best game for the footy club. I felt that was real. You could see him marking the ball and we rewarded that. Jamie Elliott is fighting for tooth and nail and he's in. They're all in. There's no loser limp in this group. They're all in. We've just got to get busier on the things that are slightly holding us back".
You mentioned that need to get a 'run on the board'. Is there a chance that there's a psychological element creeping in and it's getting a bit desperate from the players?"There's a lot of layers to that. Parts of it we scored from stoppage tonight. I think we won the stoppage scoring battle but the game on turnover became a threat for us. Hitouts are a starting point for other parts. We've got to get our best players playing their best footy, so that's real".
You know there will be focus on you guys being 0-3 and it's not seen often with the defending premiers?"I think that would have been real in the first two games. Using cricket analogy, I thought we just tentatively playing a few outside off stump and a few edges through the slips. I played a bit of cricket. Last week, I thought we were tried to hit too many sixes and then tonight the analogy was let's play this ball on its merits. I thought for parts we did do that, but some of the fundamentals really stood out".
But they didn't make the finals?"We saw it last year".
To that end, are you going to get the players to forget about the W-L record?"That's their story. They had their own story to tell and ours will be different".
The Higgins goal really killed your momentum. There's some debate about whether the ball was in or not?"We'd like to think that we live in that space every week. That we're just process driven and then we'll do enough right and the outcome will be the outcome. That's where we've lived. That hasn't changed. We did that last year and we won 18 home and away games. That was our process, so that won't waiver. The reality of the competition is you got to get moving. We can't live in this space that 'we showed a bit more tonight and that will be enough'. Again, it was a 15 point margin. We did more right, but just wasn't enough".
It was close"Did it look out?"
There's a lot of talk about why Fin Macrae is not in the 2022. Why wasn't he in the 22?"Well, Jeremy Cameron kicked one from outside the boundary last year and we still won that game".
Is the fun still there? So much fun last year and now it feels like it's frustrating? Is there a challenge there to remain with the carefree nature where it's getting a bit harder now?"Yeah that's probably fair that there should be some discussion as to why he's not in our best 22. We've just got to find out don't we. We can wash around the edges around this, but we've got to find out. Fin has done a power of work and he's certainly one of those players I've alluded to before that we've got to get a hungry lad in there. He's ready to go. Selection will be later in the week, but he's certainly one we will consider".
What about meat sauce?"It's a great question, and what you see in front of you is a guy who hates losing. Absolutely hates losing. I sit here like edgy and saying 'come on, let's get busy'. What you don't see is the joy, the happiness and the love and support for our player and our staff and I make sure everyone in our room just after the game and before the game felt my love and support. I got their backs. There is fun, and it's happened all week and there was great preparation. It happened pre-game. That's stuff is not going to change because at the end of the day if you have too much cheese on your lasagna it doesn't matter. It won't affect the result. The kitchen nerdy or the cheese and lasagna, it doesn't matter. You got to get busy and do the things right. The fundamentals of the game are really important and that's where we'll put our energy".
https://www.afl.com.au/video/1091335/fu ... 1025894001"I actually need to go a little bit less lasagna at the minute, so thanks guys".
Last edited by Jezza on Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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pietillidie
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Well, Fly is insisting it's not about being underdone in the fitness department, but 'match fitness' is a much broader concept to my mind:
Interestingly, our fumbling nearly did my head in before Fly came and still well into his first year, especially the number of times the ball fell/jarred out/was dropped or fumbled in traffic and packs. Hence our ruck dominance didn't pay off today. The getting into each other's way is a new twist on that, but our running and ball movement evolved to become next-level complex, so it too needs a lot of conscious work.
The difference between skills and routines is also well-understood. Kicking is a skill, but a routine would involve breaking a block, running to the right spot, receiving the handball cleanly, breaking a tackle, scanning ahead, setting your balance, and finally putting the ball to advantage, etc. That kind of sequence needs to become automated to be executed consistently under pressure. And in that we're clearly underdone.
Something like that. So, I still maintain we're underdone; the last third of the pre-season is surely all about those sorts of connected routines, and we look like we've almost missed that phase altogether.
I still think you can be metrics fit and underdone in terms of skills and match fitness, which includes planning, positioning, routines, ball movement, hand and foot skills, etc."No. I keep saying this week to week. We're fitter now then we have been in my time. There's probably 40 odd guys on our list and nearly every one of the guys had done the work. That's not just running. We've got an elite high performance team. Jarrod Wade is incredible at what he does and we're very lucky to have him. They've done the work, there's just this little bit right now and I'll show you some footage where the ball goes and there's three of us and it's in the middle and it's like 'no, you get it. No, you get it. Nah nah, I'd rather have three guys get it rather than one waiting for you to get it'. There's a bit of hesitation in this flow 'no, that's my ball'. I want to see a bit more of that. 'Get out of the way and I'll get the ball'".
Interestingly, our fumbling nearly did my head in before Fly came and still well into his first year, especially the number of times the ball fell/jarred out/was dropped or fumbled in traffic and packs. Hence our ruck dominance didn't pay off today. The getting into each other's way is a new twist on that, but our running and ball movement evolved to become next-level complex, so it too needs a lot of conscious work.
The difference between skills and routines is also well-understood. Kicking is a skill, but a routine would involve breaking a block, running to the right spot, receiving the handball cleanly, breaking a tackle, scanning ahead, setting your balance, and finally putting the ball to advantage, etc. That kind of sequence needs to become automated to be executed consistently under pressure. And in that we're clearly underdone.
Something like that. So, I still maintain we're underdone; the last third of the pre-season is surely all about those sorts of connected routines, and we look like we've almost missed that phase altogether.
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
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qldmagpie67
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The Black and White Lion
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I’m actually disappointed with Flys presser. It’s like he thought round 0 and 1 were just aberrations and hasn’t addressed the fundamentals yet. Even now he is saying we’re going to do the now. That would’ve a shocking oversight if true.
It was clear the fundamentals have been missing since the 20 minute mark of the giants game. Again this just shows a different view but Flys been way too optimistic so far this season. In the coaching, ta tics and player preparation. It’s clear the players aren’t listening and or they don’t have the ability to respond and lift to the 2024 level. We have been blown off the park, not just for 50mins out of every game, but the constant turnovers from poor skills and decision making just prevent you from tempo and building any momentum yourself.
De Goey has been down but his discipline towards the umpires has been good.
There’s a good case for 7 or 8 players to be dropped based on the first 3 weeks but I don’t think we have the cattle to replace that many or would want to but we have a lot of disharmony.
I thought Allan was too soon but get him in there. WHE and Sidey can compete for the sun. Carmichael gets a spin in the middle, Naicos to half back or half forward. Crisp has lost his record - half back or bench or VFL.
Markov has proven in 3 weeks why we only signed a 1 year extension. Noble in.
Harrison in. Mitchell out. Carmichael and McReery to take minutes at the coal face. Harrison forward when Beau is up the ground.
Sullivan next in line for a mid role. He could replace Mitchell now but feel Carmichael deserves the chance first for sustained effort over the last 12months.
Cox was awful forward but better in second half. Cameron was better in the ruck, round the ground and in the FWD line than Cox and Checkers but feel Checkers could be circumstance due to the crowded Fwd line and shockingly poor kicks into 50. Still feel we need another marking option in the F50 and worth giving Begg a chance alongside Checkers and McInnes.
Have to try something because the AFL cattle we’ve played haven’t got it between the ears or between the legs or between their hands at the moment and it’s time to break glass and try something different.
If Fly puts up the same again next week it will be a 10goal loss and season gone. I fear he’s not going to cut hard or hit hard thigh based on that presser and we will all tune in for the wrong score again next week 0&4
It was clear the fundamentals have been missing since the 20 minute mark of the giants game. Again this just shows a different view but Flys been way too optimistic so far this season. In the coaching, ta tics and player preparation. It’s clear the players aren’t listening and or they don’t have the ability to respond and lift to the 2024 level. We have been blown off the park, not just for 50mins out of every game, but the constant turnovers from poor skills and decision making just prevent you from tempo and building any momentum yourself.
De Goey has been down but his discipline towards the umpires has been good.
There’s a good case for 7 or 8 players to be dropped based on the first 3 weeks but I don’t think we have the cattle to replace that many or would want to but we have a lot of disharmony.
I thought Allan was too soon but get him in there. WHE and Sidey can compete for the sun. Carmichael gets a spin in the middle, Naicos to half back or half forward. Crisp has lost his record - half back or bench or VFL.
Markov has proven in 3 weeks why we only signed a 1 year extension. Noble in.
Harrison in. Mitchell out. Carmichael and McReery to take minutes at the coal face. Harrison forward when Beau is up the ground.
Sullivan next in line for a mid role. He could replace Mitchell now but feel Carmichael deserves the chance first for sustained effort over the last 12months.
Cox was awful forward but better in second half. Cameron was better in the ruck, round the ground and in the FWD line than Cox and Checkers but feel Checkers could be circumstance due to the crowded Fwd line and shockingly poor kicks into 50. Still feel we need another marking option in the F50 and worth giving Begg a chance alongside Checkers and McInnes.
Have to try something because the AFL cattle we’ve played haven’t got it between the ears or between the legs or between their hands at the moment and it’s time to break glass and try something different.
If Fly puts up the same again next week it will be a 10goal loss and season gone. I fear he’s not going to cut hard or hit hard thigh based on that presser and we will all tune in for the wrong score again next week 0&4
Ed Allen kicked our last goal of the year at the 58minute mark of the last quarter
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1eyedpie
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What can you say……..we fought the fight in the second qtr but couldn’t sustain it over the rest of the game. Our slow starts and virtually getting blown away after the main break is alarming!
Our fumbles and turnovers from senior players are absolutely killing us!
Every time we were getting momentum our way the umps put a stop to it with some bizarre calls and non calls.
Questions has to be asked about Fischer umpiring St Kilda games he couldn’t blow his whistle quick enough to award the saints free at every 50/50 contest.
Our fumbles and turnovers from senior players are absolutely killing us!
Every time we were getting momentum our way the umps put a stop to it with some bizarre calls and non calls.
Questions has to be asked about Fischer umpiring St Kilda games he couldn’t blow his whistle quick enough to award the saints free at every 50/50 contest.
Never disperse your focus unless absolutely necessary. Face one adversary at a time!
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Clifton Hill-Billy
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The Black and White Lion
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Don’t have to imagine. How many times have we done that over the last 15drafts? Reid and Brown the last KP forward it back taken first round in the draft in 20when? Darcy Moore f/s so doesn’t really count. Wonder who we will watch go by this year
Ed Allen kicked our last goal of the year at the 58minute mark of the last quarter
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The Black and White Lion
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Oh man I’m even more disappointed with the pies attitude in the pies media this morning Maynard’s quote in big letters “We will flick the switch” just demonstrates they’ve completely missed the point.
3 teams have already flicked the switch and we are 0-3. They are still not in the headspace and won’t be for some time I suggest as most posters on here have noted. We are in serious trouble with that mindset thinking they have a switch to turn on or off the opposition. The opposition have learnt our game, contained our game out us under pressure and we’ve wilted the same way each time. We were lucky with the saints margin as the saints made plenty of their own errors to leave us hanging
3 teams have already flicked the switch and we are 0-3. They are still not in the headspace and won’t be for some time I suggest as most posters on here have noted. We are in serious trouble with that mindset thinking they have a switch to turn on or off the opposition. The opposition have learnt our game, contained our game out us under pressure and we’ve wilted the same way each time. We were lucky with the saints margin as the saints made plenty of their own errors to leave us hanging
Ed Allen kicked our last goal of the year at the 58minute mark of the last quarter
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Clifton Hill-Billy
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LaurieHolden
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Couldn't agree more. Let's ditch the hyperbole and catchphrases for action. Fly's soon going to find there's resistance against words without action.The Black and White Lion wrote:Oh man I’m even more disappointed with the pies attitude in the pies media this morning Maynard’s quote in big letters “We will flick the switch” just demonstrates they’ve completely missed the point.
Going to be an interesting run into the half-yearly break.
Last edited by LaurieHolden on Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The Club's not Jock, Ted and Gerry" (& Eddie)
2023 AFL Premiers
2023 AFL Premiers
The Coach's approach to the presser was tremendous - he didn't take a single lfeline offered to him by the journos. Short breaks, short preseason, free kick imbalance, opposition goals from outside the boundary: he just played a straight bat to all of those things and talked about what Collingwood is doing wrong. That's the correct approach - whether the playuers respond to it is a different thing. He, though, is a fantastic person to have in that chair.