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What'sinaname wrote:^ you only have to open your eyes to see Israel's reaction is over the top and resulting is mass civilian fatalities.
Did Hamas attack the civilians of Israel on Oct 7th knowing full well that the IDF would go overboard in their response which in turn would garner the sympathy of the world towards the Palestinians??
The civilian casualties are horrendous and no sane person could condone them. Was this the hamas’ strategy all along?? I don’t now but i also don’t rule it out as they are as medieval as any terrorist organisation and i wouldn’t doubt for a second that they would sacrifice civilians on both sides in their pursuit of destroying Israel.
Im not defending Israels over the top response but at least the IDF have identifiable uniforms and don't use civilians as human shields.
I see little reason to think Netanyahu cares any more about Israeli lives than Hamas cares about Palestinians’. He’s certainly done little to ensure their safety and everything to ensure they will be subjected to another generation or more of fear and vulnerability.
But we probably shouldn’t expect much more from that than a guy who’s used his absurdly long time in office to make himself wealthy through corrupt means. The man is already a traitor to his own country by any metric, but what he’s doing now is the biggest treachery of all.
Even so, no matter what the other side does, Hamas are responsible for their actions and the Israeli government are responsible for theirs. It’s the perpetrator who needs to answer for their own crimes ultimately.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
What'sinaname wrote:^ Identifiable uniforms or not, the IDF is killing civilians from a safe distance. Hard for a rocket to distinguish between Hamas and an innocent.
Also hard to distinguish when Hamas don’t wear uniforms.
Why are you holding Israel/IDF to a higher moral standard that Hamas?
Let's not forget that they crossed without warning into Israel and murdered innocent and unarmed civilians in cold blood and in brutal fashion.
Most on here just seem to be obsessed with Israels over the top response with scant mention of the horror that these medieval basterds perpetrated.
Open both eyes and not just your ideological one.
What'sinaname wrote:^ Identifiable uniforms or not, the IDF is killing civilians from a safe distance. Hard for a rocket to distinguish between Hamas and an innocent.
Also hard to distinguish when Hamas don’t wear uniforms.
Why are you holding Israel/IDF to a higher moral standard that Hamas?
Let's not forget that they crossed without warning into Israel and murdered innocent and unarmed civilians in cold blood and in brutal fashion.
Most on here just seem to be obsessed with Israels over the top response with scant mention of the horror that these medieval basterds perpetrated.
Open both eyes and not just your ideological one.
You are the one who refuses to open your eyes.
Your logic amounts to saying that 1400 deaths on the Israeli side is the same as 9200 deaths, and still rising at the rate of 420 children dying each day in Gaza.
Clearly you are unaware of the history of this conflict, because if you knew anything about it, you would realise that the state of israel has carried out systematic dispossession, systematic murder and economic strangulation of the Palestinian population since 1948. You would then realise that holding violence from the Palestinian population to the same standard as the violence of the Israeli colonisers and militarised oppressors always functions as a pretext for covering up and excusing the far, far greater crimes of the oppressors.
Last edited by Magpietothemax on Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I certainly don’t claim that the people of Gaza are of less importance and would never ever do so. I just don’t see an outpouring of sympathy and grief for the victims of the medieval terrorists as i do the victims of the IDF.
It didn’t take long for the excuses and claims of propaganda by the Israelis to rear their head.
David, you are one who has been more balanced than quite a few others here who after the initial attack by Hamas began to express their view that nearly every claim made by Israel was just propaganda whilst taking any claim by Hamas/Gaza authorities as the truth.
You only need to go back a couple of weeks to the mocking and disputing of the Israeli claims of beheadings by Hamas by a few on here to understand my frustration at the partisan position taken by some.
slangman wrote:
I certainly don’t claim that the people of Gaza are of less importance and would never ever do so. I just don’t see an outpouring of sympathy and grief for the victims of the medieval terrorists as i do the victims of the IDF.
It didn’t take long for the excuses and claims of propaganda by the Israelis to rear their head.
David, you are one who has been more balanced than quite a few others here who after the initial attack by Hamas began to express their view that nearly every claim made by Israel was just propaganda whilst taking any claim by Hamas/Gaza authorities as the truth.
You only need to go back a couple of weeks to the mocking and disputing of the Israeli claims of beheadings by Hamas by a few on here to understand my frustration at the partisan position taken by some.
Israel's response is equivalent to do me wrong and I'll kill you and your family.
No one is disputing that Hamas started this with awful atrocities, but Israel's response is barbaric and, well, as has been suggested, equivalent to war crimes.
slangman wrote:
You only need to go back a couple of weeks to the mocking and disputing of the Israeli claims of beheadings by Hamas by a few on here to understand my frustration at the partisan position taken by some.
If you watch this video link you will find that the claims of beheadings by Hamas have been retracted by all those who made them, and never confirmed by the Israeli government.
These lies were spread by mainstream media and politicians including Biden himself. They were later retracted and insincere apologies made, but the damage was done. Many still think that the claims about Hamas beheading babies are actually true:The myth of Hamas beheading babies became part of the imperialist propaganda to justify the Israeli government carrying out ethnic cleansing in Gaza.
Israel is a disgrace and Western media. Media continued to trot out stories of October the 7th whilst Israel commit horrible war crimes over the border. A serious lack of defence from Israel has led to the destruction of Gaza.
slangman wrote:As this stretches into a fourth week it seems that there is no end in sight imho.
The stance that most people and organisations have taken has been predictable and the narrative that they have pursued has been along the ideological lines.
In the VPT posters have quoted as credible fact the figures given by Gaza government sources whilst calling out as propaganda anything that Israel has provided regarding atrocities and death numbers.
It’s bloody frustrating to read so much bias and as someone who has no grievance nor association with any of the groups involved, it’s getting harder and harder to ascertain what the actual truth is.
At the end of it all it’s the usual innocent civilians who become the cannon fodder and bear all the death and trauma of the narcissistic leaders of both sides.
As a side note, for personal reasons i don’t have much faith in the UN human rights commissioner or department in being impartial.
Yeah I just watched a Netflix movie about 150 Irish soldiers hung out to dry by the UN in the 60’s , ****
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Kingsofclutch wrote:I'm sure we'd all make better decisions if we were surrounded on 5 sides and showing any weakness would be interpreted as an invitation to genocide.
The initial foundation of Israel in 1948 was based on forcible dispossession of the Palestinian population, terrorism and ethnic cleansing by terrorist Jewish militia. Very quickly, it became a proxy state for US imperialism which saw a huge advantage in arming it as a military beachead for its own geopolitical interests in the Middle East. But from its very origins, the Israeli state was always going to be a lethal trap, for both the Palestinian population and for the Jewish population who emigrated there. In fact, historically most of the European Jewish population who attempted to flee the Nazi terror did not wish to emigrate to Palestine, but wanted instead to go to the US mostly, but the US government (so much for its concern for the Jewish population) barred them from entry.
