Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Magpietothemax]

[

I can tell you right now, if you'd taken the temperature of Ukraine through global business or Eastern European friends or Eastern Europeans working and travelling in Europe, you just wouldn't be making the mistake of imposing Chomskian 1980 metatheory on either Ukraine or the region.

There's the rub. it depends from whom you take the temperature. I wouldn't be asking global business in Ukraine for a reading, because their profits are very much being defended by the Zelensky regime. Naturally, they would support everything that Zelensky says and does, because creating terra rasa in Ukraine, as Zelensky is doing, will create great investment opportunities for them. They are rubbing their hands in glee over the slaughter in Ukraine. If the Eastern Europeans that you are interviewing are connected with these same corporate interests, they likewise will be a cheer squad for Zelensky and NATO.
On the other hand, if you were interviewing the working class population in Ukraine, the workers who are being forcibly conscripted into armies and then marched to their deaths as they are forced to attack entrenched Russian positions kamikaze style, like in Verdun - or workers forced to work for starvation wages while all political opposition is banned in "free Ukraine", they might give you a different opinion.

[pietillidie]

^Again, straight back to an outdated Victorian Marxist world of peasants and billionaires, and television business villains. I don't know a single wealthy Ukrainian, nor have I ever met one. Do you still imagine you're reading Dickens and everyone conducting business is the elite child of generational wealth? Or that only deranged Musks and Kochs dare generate value through commercial activity? Or that the racist Brexit backlash was really against oligarchs, not the Eastern European working class making the most of freedom of movement?

The most grotesque billionaires in Ukraine, the most horrid creatures you have in mind, are the ones doing business with, you guessed it, Russia and Russian oligarchs. And the peasants? They're trapped on the other side of the border in Russia, dreaming of the legal protections and life opportunities of the EU, if indeed they even have enough awareness about how much better life is elsewhere.

But, but America!

Next you'll be telling us that Yanukovych's billions were earned sewing garments to supplement his presidential income, and that he only refused to sign an EU Association Agreement because of the superior human rights and life opportunities afforded by Russia.

[think positive]

Wearing my ‘to the person behind me, I hope you have an amazing day” tshirt and a gorgeous shy young man says I hope you do too.

Next day we bump into each other and have a chat, I asked where he’s from and he looks , embarrassed? Shattered? Russia he says. He’s lived in Florida for 7 years and has an American accent with an odd twang. Oh honey I said, please don’t say it like that, it’s not on you, it’s idiots in places of power playing stupid games, never be ashamed of your homeland, it’s not your skeletons. He probably 25 ish, and I felt so bad for him.

Was sucks and there are so many unseen victims

[stui magpie]

^

Yep, sorry for him. It's the politicians, geriatric power hungry old cnuts.

Regardless of all the wank about who's at fault, Russia invaded Ukraine and people on both sides are dying. Someone drop a nuke on Putin and it stops, hopefully.

[Magpietothemax]

^

Yep, sorry for him. It's the politicians, geriatric power hungry old cnuts.

Regardless of all the wank about who's at fault, Russia invaded Ukraine and people on both sides are dying. Someone drop a nuke on Putin and it stops, hopefully.

What??? Have you actually thought through the implications of that??
How many more people would die if that happened, on both sides??

[stui magpie]

^

Well, considering he's supposed to be hiding out in some remote mansion, if it's a small nuke just him and his servants.

[Magpietothemax]

^

Well, considering he's supposed to be hiding out in some remote mansion, if it's a small nuke just him and his servants.

So you don't think it is possible that Russia would respond with a "small nuke" on Kiev, resulting in Woirld War 3??

[stui magpie]

OK, so just put a bullet in the cnuts head. Once he's dead, I really doubt that Russia would retaliate.

[David]

[pietillidie]

Ukraine reaffirmed its official view in no uncertain terms this week in response to a loose NATO remark on Ukraine potentially giving up something to for NATO admission:

“Trading territory for a NATO umbrella? It is ridiculous,” tweeted Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s office.

NATO then restated its view clearly, although if you read the original comment the bloke had already added it was still up to Ukraine, so the blowup was largely about potential misconstrual.

“NATO’s position is clear and it has not changed. We fully support Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, as NATO leaders reiterated at the Vilnius summit in July,” the spokesperson said. “It is up to Ukraine to decide when and on what terms to achieve peace, and clearly there is a need for security arrangements to ensure that there is no repeat of the war.”

Taking into account the forceful party lines and propaganda tactics one expects even from the victim party during war, the Ukrainian view still seems clear.

David, have you picked up any respectable contrary opinion or research on recent Ukrainian sentiment? Is your sense from people you know that population generally is still unwavering? The people I know haven't moved and are as determined as ever to get the bastards out.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-uk ... ry-russia/

[Magpietothemax]

[David]

[roar]

[Magpietothemax]

[What'sinaname]

The Wagner Group had its chance. But they blinked and now their Chief and 2IC are dead and Putin wins again.