The Voice vote:

[stui magpie]

The first level details are in the wording to be voted on. Nothing scary there.

The next level details will be decided by parliament and therefore subject to change by future governments.

Taking one clause in a legal document literally without the context of referring to previous clauses is always a recipe for getting the wrong answer

So wouldn't it be better if these details were spelled out BEFORE we vote. When things are intentionally concealed, it's hard not to be suspicious.

2 problems with that.

1. The whole idea is to vote on The Voice referendum as it effects the constitution, to create it and it's limits. Then Parliament legislates after discussion and likely amendments to get the final form. I say final but in reality, the form will change over time.

2. Putting that level of detail up now only leads to people arguing over the detail. Like the last Referendum, the people who wanted one were split 3 ways over what form it should take and split the yes vote 3 ways.

[think positive]

The first level details are in the wording to be voted on. Nothing scary there.

The next level details will be decided by parliament and therefore subject to change by future governments.

Taking one clause in a legal document literally without the context of referring to previous clauses is always a recipe for getting the wrong answer

So wouldn't it be better if these details were spelled out BEFORE we vote. When things are intentionally concealed, it's hard not to be suspicious.

exactly!

Why would anyone trust government! Any government!

As I said before a lot of people just don’t give a shit, lack of easy, clear precise info makes it an easy no vote.

[stui magpie]

^

Albo has made n absolute hash of it.

[Jezza]

History says this referendum will fail. The 'NO' side has the lead nationally and in the majority of states according to the latest Newspoll.

National = Yes 43, No 47, Undecided 10

NSW = Yes 46, No 41, Undecided 13
VIC = Yes 48, No 41, Undecided 11
QLD = Yes 40, No 54, Undecided 6
WA = Yes 39, No 52, Undecided 9
SA = Yes 45, No 46, Undecided 9
TAS = Yes 43, No 48, Undecided 9

https://twitter.com/kevinbonham/status/ ... 8464311299

[David]

If Queensland and WA are write-offs (and they were likely always going to be), the only hope for this succeeding looks to be to squeak home with a narrow national majority and somehow find a way to get the Yes vote over the line in SA and Tasmania. History certainly seems to be against anything like that happening now.

Dutton playing this very cleverly, in the meantime; he’s saying out loud what’s no doubt already being suggested behind closed doors in the Labor party room, and effectively forcing Labor to have to choose between going down with the sinking ship or doing what he’s "helpfully" suggesting. As far as tactical political smarts are concerned, he seems to have Albo well covered:

https://www.news.com.au/national/politi ... b23bff?amp

[stui magpie]

Albo's wedged, he can't back down now, he made this his signature policy. Dutton's playing him like a $2 fiddle.

The Yes vote's only hope now is to come out swinging with some clear, concise information to try to counter all the misinformation floating around.

I agree with TP, a lot of people don't really care, can't see the benefits and gaps in information are being willed with doubt.

I think George Brandis nails it.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 5di91.html

[Bucks5]

Another example of why I cannot trust the Voice:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/th ... r-AA1d015D

Did Albanese really say it would be ‘a brave government’ that didn't do as the Voice says?

[stui magpie]

If he did say that, he's an absolute dunce.

[Skids]

I really don't see why an additional voice or whatever you want to call it is even being discussed.

Out of the 76 senators currently in parliament, 8 identify as Aboriginal or Torres Straits Islanders. That's a tad over 10% for a group that make up just over 3% of the population.

Senator Dorinda Cox, Western Australia
Senator Patrick Dodson, Western Australia
Senator Jacqui Lambie, Tasmania
Senator Kerrynne Liddle, South Australia
Senator the Hon Malarndirri McCarthy, Northern Territory
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, Northern Territory
Senator Jana Stewart, Victoria
Senator Lidia Thorpe, Victoria

Federal parliament has 227 MP's , 11 (4.8%) are Indigenous.

There are 837 MP's Australia wide, 26 (3.1%) are Indigenous.

If that doesn't already constitute a 'voice', I don't know what does.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament ... ousMPs2022

[think positive]

Another example of why I cannot trust the Voice:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/th ... r-AA1d015D

Did Albanese really say it would be ‘a brave government’ that didn't do as the Voice says?

ok doubling down on the no now thanks!!

super shits me already!

[think positive]

I really don't see why an additional voice or whatever you want to call it is even being discussed.

Out of the 76 senators currently in parliament, 8 identify as Aboriginal or Torres Straits Islanders. That's a tad over 10% for a group that make up just over 3% of the population.

Senator Dorinda Cox, Western Australia
Senator Patrick Dodson, Western Australia
Senator Jacqui Lambie, Tasmania
Senator Kerrynne Liddle, South Australia
Senator the Hon Malarndirri McCarthy, Northern Territory
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, Northern Territory
Senator Jana Stewart, Victoria
Senator Lidia Thorpe, Victoria

Federal parliament has 227 MP's , 11 (4.8%) are Indigenous.

There are 837 MP's Australia wide, 26 (3.1%) are Indigenous.

If that doesn't already constitute a 'voice', I don't know what does.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament ... ousMPs2022

we need a like button!

[David]

[Skids]

[stui magpie]

There is a legitimate number of people discovering Indigenous ancestry by researching their family tree. A grandmother or grandfather who was part of the stolen generation, raised white and never spoke of it.

There's also a number who just choose to identify as Indigenous because it's trendy and they can.

[Magpietothemax]

Albo's wedged, he can't back down now, he made this his signature policy. Dutton's playing him like a $2 fiddle.

The Yes vote's only hope now is to come out swinging with some clear, concise information to try to counter all the misinformation floating around.

I agree with TP, a lot of people don't really care, can't see the benefits and gaps in information are being willed with doubt.

I think George Brandis nails it.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 5di91.html

Have you ever asked yourself, why are those who want a ''yes'' vote failing to provide enough information to make their case compelling? Precisely because this was never a grass roots movement, but it was a top down plan hatched in a meeting between Tony Abbot, Bill Shorten, Marcia Langton and Noel Pearson in 2015, held in Kirribilli House. This is why the Voice will most likely be voted down. For this reason, many people (the perceptive ones) as well as many indigenous people suspect it to be a monumental fraud aimed at putting a progressive veneer on policies which will enforce the continued social misery of the aboriginal population at large. Naturally, the proponents of the Voice will seek to label all those who oppose it as "racist''. What they are trying to cover up, however, is that it is possible to oppose the Voice not just from the right, but also from the left.