The Voice vote:

[think positive]

you forgot judgemental

voting no doesn't mean someone is hostile or racist.

for the people i have spoken to its a trust issue. we simply don't trust we are getting the whole, or the ending story.

No, didn’t use the word judgemental because David’s post simply wasn’t.

he always manages to disguise it, but its always there

you dont see it because you're agreeing with him!!

Stui agrees with David, his mum doesnt, yet Stui can except that with out name calling

[David]

[think positive]

[stui magpie]

This is a very good Video that explains a lot about The Voice proposal and addresses many of the questions raised here.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-11/ ... /102208504

[watt price tully]

[stui magpie]

I read a nice quote today.

Paraphrased, if you say NO to Indigenous people dying younger, having poorer health, education and employment prospects, then vote YES for the voice.

I get that people don't trust the Government, who would? But I'm hoping that enough people take a leap of faith armed with the desire to do (what I think is) the right thing.

[slangman]

The model of equality is to ensure no one is singled out.

I can’t see how voting Yes is anything but racist irrespective of the outcome it might or might not fulfill.

Replace First Nations with any other race would cause an outcry of racism and inequality from the same people that are promoting the Yes vote.

We are all equal within the eyes of the law and constitution and it bewilders me as to why we need to regress to past prejudices based on skin colour after coming so far to the equality of opportunity that we all now have.

What amazes me more is that people are erring on the side of voting Yes without being 100% certain of what the Voice will actually entail and whether it will ever succeed in its objectives.

I still haven’t heard or read how it’s implementation will do anything to improve Indigenous lives and their futures.

[Magpietothemax]

This is a very good Video that explains a lot about The Voice proposal and addresses many of the questions raised here.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-11/ ... /102208504

The ABC is not a "neutral body". It is a propaganda instrument of the ruling elite. We saw an example of that when Stan Grant ejected from Q +A a Russian student who dared to raise that Ukrainian military forces have killed thousands of the Russian speaking population in the Donets since 2014. This was unacceptable to Grant and his ABC minders, because it contradicted the narrative of both Labor and Liberal that Putin is a monster who launched an "unprovoked war".
Likewise now, any true analysis of what is behind the Voice referendum, the corporate interests and a thin layer of wealthy Aboriginal academics and entrepreneurs, who seek to entrench their privileges at the expense of the vast majority of the aboriginal population suffering in extreme economic misery, is off the agenda for the ABC.

[David]

[Magpietothemax]

The model of equality is to ensure no one is singled out.

I can’t see how voting Yes is anything but racist irrespective of the outcome it might or might not fulfill.

Replace First Nations with any other race would cause an outcry of racism and inequality from the same people that are promoting the Yes vote.

We are all equal within the eyes of the law and constitution and it bewilders me as to why we need to regress to past prejudices based on skin colour after coming so far to the equality of opportunity that we all now have.

What amazes me more is that people are erring on the side of voting Yes without being 100% certain of what the Voice will actually entail and whether it will ever succeed in its objectives.

I still haven’t heard or read how it’s implementation will do anything to improve Indigenous lives and their futures.

The Voice is an initiatiive based on Identity Politics. Identity politics claims that the main division in society is race, which is totally false. The main division in society is class - in particular, the conflict between the two fundamental classes of society: the working class and the capitalist class. Those who claim that race is the main division in society seek to exploit divisions of race, promoted by the capitalist class, to advance their own privileges. This is exactly what we are seeing with the Voice. A thin layer of wealthy indigenous academics and entrepreneurs, seek to cement a privileged and influential position for themselves by becoming members of a non-elected body which would be created by the Voice legistlation. They also seek to make money for themselves by negotiating deals with corporate interests, especially mining corporations.
The aim of those who promote identity poliitcs is to create for themselves the facade of being "progressive", whilst in reality reinforcing the racist divisions in society that the ruling class at all times strives to exacerbate. At the same time, a no less significant aim of theirs is to make truckloads of money.

[think positive]

since you brought new Zealand into it!

the other day I spoke to a kiwi about it, and they were not impressed, I googled and found this right off the bat!

https://ipa.org.au/ipa-today/the-new-ze ... -australia

[David]

Do you support any pro-sovereignty initiatives, MTTM? If the Voice fails (and it well might, at this rate), what do you think First Nations activists should be fighting for?

[David]

since you brought new Zealand into it!

the other day I spoke to a kiwi about it, and they were not impressed, I googled and found this right off the bat!

https://ipa.org.au/ipa-today/the-new-ze ... -australia

The Waitangi Tribunal is what you get when you get a Treaty: a legal agreement that carries with it obligations (although, as with the Voice, it seems its recommendations can be and often are ignored).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waitangi_Tribunal

Despite the one-sided framing of that article (it’s the IPA, enough said!), the tribunal is probably a good example of what the Voice could be if it had more teeth. Sadly, I think Thorpe and others are right that we’re getting the skim milk version here.

[Magpietothemax]

Do you support any pro-sovereignty initiatives, MTTM? If the Voice fails (and it well might, at this rate), what do you think First Nations activists should be fighting for?

No, I don't support any "sovereignty" initiatives whatsoever (this is the standpoint of Thorpe). These are all nationalist and therefore deeply regressive. In today's global economy, not one problem can be solved on a nationalist basis. I am for the unity of all working class people, on an international scale. the interests of impoverished Aboriginal people, whether living in remote communities or in city suburbs, are the same as those of workers in Australia of all ethnic backgrounds, who confront surging inflation and a succession of drastic real wage cuts, as well as government budget cuts to health, education, disability services etc.

[slangman]

The model of equality is to ensure no one is singled out.

I can’t see how voting Yes is anything but racist irrespective of the outcome it might or might not fulfill.

Replace First Nations with any other race would cause an outcry of racism and inequality from the same people that are promoting the Yes vote.

We are all equal within the eyes of the law and constitution and it bewilders me as to why we need to regress to past prejudices based on skin colour after coming so far to the equality of opportunity that we all now have.

What amazes me more is that people are erring on the side of voting Yes without being 100% certain of what the Voice will actually entail and whether it will ever succeed in its objectives.

I still haven’t heard or read how it’s implementation will do anything to improve Indigenous lives and their futures.

Calling proposals like this racist is a bit of a blinkered position that requires a fairly rose-coloured view of Australia and its history. It’s essential to understand that this proposal isn’t emerging from a vacuum, and isn’t about one random ethnocultural group looking for special privileges. It’s about the fabric of this specific country we’re in and the dynamics that have shaped it since day one.

if Australia was not aware of its history then I don’t understand how every adult has an equal vote, every person has equal access to health, education and welfare. There is a reason why the rear view mirror is substantially smaller than the front windscreen. Those who focus on looking back generally get left behind.
What indigenous people need is not the voice, but their own leaders and elders stepping up and inspiring others to do better for themselves and take control of their own lives. How many prominent aboriginal people showed their faces in Alice Springs a few months ago??
Where were Lidia, Goodes, Langton etc when the going got tough??
How will the voice change any of that?

EVERY Australian irrespective of their background is equal in law so regressing to special privileges to any one group is the epitome of racism.
The fabric of this country will forever be compromised, undoing all the work done to get us to the stage where all we’re equal.
Maybe some people subscribe to the theory that we’re all equal, just some are more equal than others.