Destination Club: We now are (2024 edit - or are we not?)?)
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Born to Pie
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Magpietothemax
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lazzadesilva
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Maybe we should know after the first 3 - 5 rounds after seeing how McStay, Bobby Hill and Frampton play. Also when Kruger plays. I’ll be pissed off if none of them become match winnersinxs88 wrote:Our depth is fine. Do we have enough match winning stars is the issue.
I term the current Collingwood attack based strategy “Unceasing Waves” like on a stormy and windy day with rough seas. A Perfect Storm 
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piedys
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Sure do; and we were one of the last teams to beat them in the mud at MCG in July 1989. They were about a minute away from rolling Whorethorn at the death in 1989GF; spewin' still....inxs88 wrote:Anyone remember 1989 when the Cats had a forward line roster of:
* Gary Ablett
* Bruce Lindner
* Baz Stoneham
* Shane Hamilton
* Gavin Exell
* David Cameron
* Billy Brownless
Why the Cats didn't improve in 1990, and suddenly tapered off and missed the finals is anyone's guess...
M I L L A N E 4 2 forever
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David
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Maybe I'm just showing my age/ignorance, but I've never heard of more than half of those players! I'm sure it was a good forward line, but surely it adds weight to the argument that a quality side needs a mix of out-and-out champs (Ablett, maybe Brownless) and decent players who can play their role. You don't get that by being starstruck during trading period.inxs88 wrote:Anyone remember 1989 when the Cats had a forward line roster of:^
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
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LaurieHolden
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Looks to me there is no clear balance of players having left Clubs, as to joining a 'destination' Club. First Q to answer is, what defines a destination Club?
What I view is more apparent is the quality of the leadership and football administrators a Club has, coupled with the duration of their tenure. Is our Club viewed as a safe home for young players to develop on and off the field? Do we have proven performers in these roles?
Sydney lured in some established on-field players, many under the COLA system, but you might argue it backfired with Franklin / Tippet salary cap squeeze. From memory it squeezed out Mumford and Mitchell.
Franklin you could argue has worked for them. The branding together with 4x AA and 2 Colemans along the journey suggests a decent return, but still, no Premiership since the removal of COLA.
From an administration perspective, ex-Pie Andrew Ireland was a key architect behind their list management decisions over a long period and a flag in 2012.
Colless / Ireland / Roos / Longmire were instrumental in changing the image of the Swans.
Carlton, well they just flat out cheated the cap, never forget! That is an example of a crooked administration, and the impact stemming from the fines and draft exclusions was a contributing factor into their fall from grace, on and off the field under John Elliott. They've gone through 10 coaches and twice as many administrators since 1989.
It wasn't surprising they attempted to headhunt Brian Cook to fill a void.
May long the impact from that legacy continue.
While Geelong have had to pay up to get Dangerfield and Cameron, the Club and players have achieved their objective, and balanced their list well over the years. Brian Cook oversaw an era that experienced finals football in 16 of their last 18 seasons. Costa / Cook / Thompson / Scott.
Richmond appointed Neal Balme post success at Collingwood and Geelong which featured in multiple Premiership tilts. The O'Neal / Gale / Neil Balme & Mark Williams / Hardwick team certainly have had their time in the sun.
Hawthorn had Dicker & Kennett / Graham Wright & Mark Evans / Clarkson steer their Club to 10 finals series in 12 years, including 4 flags in 5 attempts.
Evans cut his teeth as a football administrator at Hawthorn and was one of the principal architects of that juggernaut, before moving to the AFL to become AFL’s football operations, just as the Hawks were about to win a treble of flags.
It's no coincidence Evans ended up as Gold Coasts CEO alongside recent outgoing President in Tony Cochrane. Cochrane himself has an impeccable resume, having promoted sporting events, concerts, live shows, theatre and one-off events. Perhaps his greatest acclaim in Australia, though, is transforming the V8s into a nationally and globally recognised sport before stepping aside in 2012.
Melbourne, along with Roos / Mark Williams & Marcus Wagner (both ex-Collingwood) actively recruited May and Lever to round a list that tasted ultimate victory in 2021.
The McAllister / Walsh / Matthews era changed the direction of the our Club, leading into the McGuire / Walsh / Balme / Malthouse / Pert administration.
Balme of course moving onto Geelong and Richmond where he was a key part in their drought breaking Premiership success.
During this time Collingwood saw Paul Williams, Nick Davis, Shaw x 2 and SRocca depart, but lured in Pert, Medhurst, Buckley, Clement, Wakelin, Rocca, Adams and Treloar to name some of our better transfer in recruits along the way.
Players of the ilk of O'Bree and Crisp simply fell our way as opposed to be lured by 'destination'.
Sometimes you've got to be careful what you wish for, but despite the detritus of 4 failed Premiership tilts since 1990, I think the off-field team we have assembled in Browne / Kelly / Wright / Macrae, looms as is as potentially the best since the McGuire / Balme / Walsh / Malthouse era. This, I believe will determine whether we can lure the likes of Aaron Naughton* to the Whatever We're Calling it Now Centre'.
*FWIW, Aaron Naughton becomes a Restricted Free Agent in 2024. If the template from AAU22 continues, and we're to land a list defining trade, this is the pedigree for where we should start. He's a 4x AUU22 CHF, that's rare air, and chumps don't secure that. I reckon he'd be better again at CHB.
What might it cost to get a player of that quality a year early? Probably our 1st round pick and a player the quality of IQ would have to be brought to the trade bargaining table.
If it was the other way around, we'd be demanding the same.
As a guide, Tom Boyd was traded to the Bulldogs in exchange for Ryan Griffen and pick 6 in the 2014 AFL draft, along with a 7 year $1m contract.
Ultimately, it's an AA quality KPF / KPD void that remains. It may well go against the Graeme Wright philosphy though, paying too much for a player, particularly when recent contract disasters are still fresh in the mind.
(NB it's not an extensively researched list of Club administrators, just what I can recall)
What I view is more apparent is the quality of the leadership and football administrators a Club has, coupled with the duration of their tenure. Is our Club viewed as a safe home for young players to develop on and off the field? Do we have proven performers in these roles?
Sydney lured in some established on-field players, many under the COLA system, but you might argue it backfired with Franklin / Tippet salary cap squeeze. From memory it squeezed out Mumford and Mitchell.
Franklin you could argue has worked for them. The branding together with 4x AA and 2 Colemans along the journey suggests a decent return, but still, no Premiership since the removal of COLA.
From an administration perspective, ex-Pie Andrew Ireland was a key architect behind their list management decisions over a long period and a flag in 2012.
Colless / Ireland / Roos / Longmire were instrumental in changing the image of the Swans.
Carlton, well they just flat out cheated the cap, never forget! That is an example of a crooked administration, and the impact stemming from the fines and draft exclusions was a contributing factor into their fall from grace, on and off the field under John Elliott. They've gone through 10 coaches and twice as many administrators since 1989.
It wasn't surprising they attempted to headhunt Brian Cook to fill a void.
May long the impact from that legacy continue.
While Geelong have had to pay up to get Dangerfield and Cameron, the Club and players have achieved their objective, and balanced their list well over the years. Brian Cook oversaw an era that experienced finals football in 16 of their last 18 seasons. Costa / Cook / Thompson / Scott.
Richmond appointed Neal Balme post success at Collingwood and Geelong which featured in multiple Premiership tilts. The O'Neal / Gale / Neil Balme & Mark Williams / Hardwick team certainly have had their time in the sun.
Hawthorn had Dicker & Kennett / Graham Wright & Mark Evans / Clarkson steer their Club to 10 finals series in 12 years, including 4 flags in 5 attempts.
Evans cut his teeth as a football administrator at Hawthorn and was one of the principal architects of that juggernaut, before moving to the AFL to become AFL’s football operations, just as the Hawks were about to win a treble of flags.
It's no coincidence Evans ended up as Gold Coasts CEO alongside recent outgoing President in Tony Cochrane. Cochrane himself has an impeccable resume, having promoted sporting events, concerts, live shows, theatre and one-off events. Perhaps his greatest acclaim in Australia, though, is transforming the V8s into a nationally and globally recognised sport before stepping aside in 2012.
Melbourne, along with Roos / Mark Williams & Marcus Wagner (both ex-Collingwood) actively recruited May and Lever to round a list that tasted ultimate victory in 2021.
The McAllister / Walsh / Matthews era changed the direction of the our Club, leading into the McGuire / Walsh / Balme / Malthouse / Pert administration.
Balme of course moving onto Geelong and Richmond where he was a key part in their drought breaking Premiership success.
During this time Collingwood saw Paul Williams, Nick Davis, Shaw x 2 and SRocca depart, but lured in Pert, Medhurst, Buckley, Clement, Wakelin, Rocca, Adams and Treloar to name some of our better transfer in recruits along the way.
Players of the ilk of O'Bree and Crisp simply fell our way as opposed to be lured by 'destination'.
Sometimes you've got to be careful what you wish for, but despite the detritus of 4 failed Premiership tilts since 1990, I think the off-field team we have assembled in Browne / Kelly / Wright / Macrae, looms as is as potentially the best since the McGuire / Balme / Walsh / Malthouse era. This, I believe will determine whether we can lure the likes of Aaron Naughton* to the Whatever We're Calling it Now Centre'.
*FWIW, Aaron Naughton becomes a Restricted Free Agent in 2024. If the template from AAU22 continues, and we're to land a list defining trade, this is the pedigree for where we should start. He's a 4x AUU22 CHF, that's rare air, and chumps don't secure that. I reckon he'd be better again at CHB.
What might it cost to get a player of that quality a year early? Probably our 1st round pick and a player the quality of IQ would have to be brought to the trade bargaining table.
If it was the other way around, we'd be demanding the same.
As a guide, Tom Boyd was traded to the Bulldogs in exchange for Ryan Griffen and pick 6 in the 2014 AFL draft, along with a 7 year $1m contract.
Ultimately, it's an AA quality KPF / KPD void that remains. It may well go against the Graeme Wright philosphy though, paying too much for a player, particularly when recent contract disasters are still fresh in the mind.
(NB it's not an extensively researched list of Club administrators, just what I can recall)
Last edited by LaurieHolden on Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"The Club's not Jock, Ted and Gerry" (& Eddie)
2023 AFL Premiers
2023 AFL Premiers
We got done by 11 goals. Remember Sandy Roberts' famous commentary when Ablett kicked a miraculous goal?piedys wrote:Sure do; and we were one of the last teams to beat them in the mud at MCG in July 1989. They were about a minute away from rolling Whorethorn at the death in 1989GF; spewin' still....inxs88 wrote:Anyone remember 1989 when the Cats had a forward line roster of:
* Gary Ablett
* Bruce Lindner
* Baz Stoneham
* Shane Hamilton
* Gavin Exell
* David Cameron
* Billy Brownless
Why the Cats didn't improve in 1990, and suddenly tapered off and missed the finals is anyone's guess...
I love the Pies, hate Carlscum