Trade Targets ~ Free Agency & MSD player discussion

[Pies4shaw]

^ No-one sensible should disagree with your view that we need such support at both ends of the ground - but McStay is a terrible footballer. There must be something better available - in the VFL, if not by way of acquisition of an AFL player. Really, he's got nothing. He's not hard enough for his size, he's not quick enough, he doesn't do much in the ruck, he rarely takes a mark and he kicks a goal every second game (and although he's kicked up to 4 goals on a handful of occasions, they've typically been against poor teams). Watching him play, there is nothing at all to like. He might be able to perform some structural function but he isn't going to improve the team - and especially not in finals, where "nearly" players like this have been repeatedly found out. If there aren't more attractive options to perform that structural function, perhaps we should go to Plan B.

[Mr Miyagi]

Can only assume Leppa knows something we don’t?

[Pies4shaw]

^ That's the exact same argument that was used when we recruited the idiot we now pay to play for Footscray - that deal, like this one, was widelv-touted for months, so you watch the player play for their other team and you form your own view. I expressed the view, repeatedly, before he was recruited, that I saw nothing to justify his recruitment. One is permitted to have a different view from the Club, otherwise we'd never post.

Another great example is Jesse White - complete spud who couldn't read the play - that was evident watching him play for the Swans against us. In particular, I recall one game where he ran around like a huge, powerful gazelle and looked like he was going to dominate against us with his amazing physical attributes - but then he didn't touch the ball again. Fast forward a couple of years to a game for Collingwood against Richmond in which he kicked the first goal and then failed to touch the ball for over 70 minutes because he had no football ability or capacity to read the game to apply in aid of his immense physical capabilities.

Leppitsch might have a different view from mine about McStay - but that doesn't mean we can't debate the merits.

[Mr Miyagi]

Oh trust me, I’m not keen on recruiting McStay at all. As a forward or second ruck, anyway. If he’s a better player as a defender, then maybe. But I saw nothing in this week’s game that convinced me he’s worth the deal.

[Pies2016]

^ ^ ^
And he’s hardly my first choice either but I think we’re at the point where anticipating his role at the club is of more context than dissecting his well documented weaknesses. We can all see his limitations ( including the club, I’d imagine ) so what are the clubs plans for him and by extension, is his “ role “ worth the alleged offer being thrown around ?
195cm proven match winners are neither cheap nor grow on trees, so I’m guessing the club has done its best to find a role player who fits a need on our list profile, isn’t a trade and who doesn’t break the bank. I would still rather invest in a player who is getting a game in a decent side every week than a Hail Mary who plays well in the VFL every week, yet still fail to get much senior opportunity on the back of that.
Personally, I don’t see any reason why he couldn’t hold down F B for the next three plus seasons and if that means freeing up Moore, then he is making us better in defence. Conversely, I don’t see any real improvement in our scoring potency by playing him forward. Krueger looks a natural forward to me but there’s a history to suggest longevity isn’t his strong suit. Maybe McStays acquisition is as much about big man versatility than it is anything else.
McStay will be an interesting watch because his ( very probable ) acquisition and all others going forward now come under Flys, Wrights, Leppa and Boltons watch. No pressure at all

[The Black and White Lion]

So how many players are we delisting to make space for McStay, Hill and Frampton?

Can understand a Poulter trade. McStay is a free agent and I hate giving GWS draft picks.

Can understand we’d want a reasonable suite of picks for Grundy but that won’t help if we don’t free up spots to use them.

[rad]

Surely we’re not going to pay $300k per season for Grundy to leave and then pay $600k for McStay, basically a swap of McStay for Grundy, unless the Grundy trade comes with high draft picks too.

[scoobydoo]

^ No-one sensible should disagree with your view that we need such support at both ends of the ground - but McStay is a terrible footballer. There must be something better available - in the VFL, if not by way of acquisition of an AFL player. Really, he's got nothing. He's not hard enough for his size, he's not quick enough, he doesn't do much in the ruck, he rarely takes a mark and he kicks a goal every second game (and although he's kicked up to 4 goals on a handful of occasions, they've typically been against poor teams). Watching him play, there is nothing at all to like. He might be able to perform some structural function but he isn't going to improve the team - and especially not in finals, where "nearly" players like this have been repeatedly found out. If there aren't more attractive options to perform that structural function, perhaps we should go to Plan B.

McStay is a terrible footballer??
Can you call magic man Wrighty & let him know. I think he’s going to recruit him.

[Pies2016]

So how many players are we delisting to make space for McStay, Hill and Frampton?

Can understand a Poulter trade. McStay is a free agent and I hate giving GWS draft picks.

Can understand we’d want a reasonable suite of picks for Grundy but that won’t help if we don’t free up spots to use them.

You make a fair point. Whoever we bring in as trades needs to be added to the three minimum selections at the National draft. ( pretty sure it’s still three minimum, there were so many Covid compensation list changes made a couple years ago, it’s hard to keep up )
Everything I’m hearing and reading points to McStay and Hill coming to Collingwood but Frampton is more about insurance if Grundy was moved on.
That would mean a minimum of five outs ( 2 + 3 ) on our current list
Big name trades like Taranto ( example ) surely couldn’t eventuate unless a big name like DeGoey or Grundy left the club. Also, if I recall, the Roughead retirement was offset by Carmichael, so we end up back at five outs, unless someone knows better.
That tends to suggest there will likely be a fringe trade or two where a Collingwood player ( s ) will find a new home. Others may think differently but five delistings to a young list would seem a bit harsh to me
I wouldn’t be worried about going to the draft with five / six picks and only using the first three. The club will obviously look to bundle any later picks up to get closer to the pointy end but it’s not the end of the world if nothing unfolds. A couple late picks left hung out to dry would only be speculation prospects anyway. It’s all about making the early picks count.

[The Black and White Lion]

So how many players are we delisting to make space for McStay, Hill and Frampton?

Can understand a Poulter trade. McStay is a free agent and I hate giving GWS draft picks.

Can understand we’d want a reasonable suite of picks for Grundy but that won’t help if we don’t free up spots to use them.

You make a fair point. Whoever we bring in as trades needs to be added to the three minimum selections at the National draft. ( pretty sure it’s still three minimum, there were so many Covid compensation list changes made a couple years ago, it’s hard to keep up )
Everything I’m hearing and reading points to McStay and Hill coming to Collingwood but Frampton is more about insurance if Grundy was moved on.
That would mean a minimum of five outs ( 2 + 3 ) on our current list
Big name trades like Taranto ( example ) surely couldn’t eventuate unless a big name like DeGoey or Grundy left the club. Also, if I recall, the Roughead retirement was offset by Carmichael, so we end up back at five outs, unless someone knows better.
That tends to suggest there will likely be a fringe trade or two where a Collingwood player ( s ) will find a new home. Others may think differently but five delistings to a young list would seem a bit harsh to me
I wouldn’t be worried about going to the draft with five / six picks and only using the first three. The club will obviously look to bundle any later picks up to get closer to the pointy end but it’s not the end of the world if nothing unfolds. A couple late picks left hung out to dry would only be speculation prospects anyway. It’s all about making the early picks count.

I think Chugg goes but he’s a rookie. A senior like McMahon, Kelly or Tyler Brown could be sent to the rookie list if we persist with them to open at least one spot. Poulter needs to go for mine and will be lucky to get a trade in my mind so that could be another. Cal Brown needs to go for mine also. Just not quite up to AFL standard unfortunately.

Still leaves a few players to be delisted or retired. Pendles Sidey and Howe the candidates. Could the emergence of Murphy this year be enough for Howe to retire one year early, maybe not. Sidey has returned to form this year but can he keep going.

Tom Wilson is a cat B so out of the equation. And despite his vanilla cardboard exterior Madgen is good cover and has turned into a VFL centre half forward out of nowhere.

Arlo Draper, Harrison and Murley aren’t options for another year but have each had one or two good games.

If not these, who goes?

[inxs88]

Suggested Outs:

C Brown (delist)
I Chugg (delist)
Madgen (delist)
WHE (should retire)
M Keane ( retired)
J Roughead (retired)

Rumoured:

B Grundy (Dees trade)
C Poulter (go home factor)

Vulnerable:

T Brown
L McMahon
Kelly

[Pies4shaw]

^ No-one sensible should disagree with your view that we need such support at both ends of the ground - but McStay is a terrible footballer. There must be something better available - in the VFL, if not by way of acquisition of an AFL player. Really, he's got nothing. He's not hard enough for his size, he's not quick enough, he doesn't do much in the ruck, he rarely takes a mark and he kicks a goal every second game (and although he's kicked up to 4 goals on a handful of occasions, they've typically been against poor teams). Watching him play, there is nothing at all to like. He might be able to perform some structural function but he isn't going to improve the team - and especially not in finals, where "nearly" players like this have been repeatedly found out. If there aren't more attractive options to perform that structural function, perhaps we should go to Plan B.

McStay is a terrible footballer??
Can you call magic man Wrighty & let him know. I think he’s going to recruit him.

Yes, he's a terrible footballer. What's your point? That I shouldn't have an opinion about that because Wright may have a different one from mine? Perhaps we could just fill Nick's with official press releases, reproduced on behalf of the Club?

[RudeBoy]

The very thought of us recruiting McStay troubles me at night and keeps me awake.

[themonk]

Not a superstar but kicked 4 against Carlton. Worth a punt.

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

^ That's the exact same argument that was used when we recruited the idiot we now pay to play for Footscray - that deal, like this one, was widelv-touted for months, so you watch the player play for their other team and you form your own view. I expressed the view, repeatedly, before he was recruited, that I saw nothing to justify his recruitment. One is permitted to have a different view from the Club, otherwise we'd never post.

Another great example is Jesse White - complete spud who couldn't read the play - that was evident watching him play for the Swans against us. In particular, I recall one game where he ran around like a huge, powerful gazelle and looked like he was going to dominate against us with his amazing physical attributes - but then he didn't touch the ball again. Fast forward a couple of years to a game for Collingwood against Richmond in which he kicked the first goal and then failed to touch the ball for over 70 minutes because he had no football ability or capacity to read the game to apply in aid of his immense physical capabilities.

Leppitsch might have a different view from mine about McStay - but that doesn't mean we can't debate the merits.

That's below the belt comparing him to Jesse White. He and Tony Armstrong couldn't get a game at Sydney. McStay on the hand is a regular in the premiership contending Brisbane side. And it is appropriate to comment that Leppa knows a thing or two about McStay who he worked with at Brisbane. Who exactly at Collingwood had intimate knowledge of Jesse White and Tony Armstrong when they were recruited from Sydney? That's a question I'd like to know.