Post Match. Pies lose to Lions. All comments, please.

[Pies2016]

[quote="masoncox"]Ollie Henry is a lazy footballer.
The rest of our so called young players have shown absolutely nothing

Ollie Henry turned 19 two weeks ago and didn’t play footy last year.
It was only a few weeks ago he kicked three goals against Carlton as an 18 year old. Don’t confuse lazy with not yet having the physical presence to execute repeat efforts.
You need to get a grip before you start making calls on kids playing a mans game.
And in the same breath you want to constantly defend a 6’10” mature age pussycat who can’t even crack a game in a very ordinary team.
Where’s the balance ?

[K]

...
Did I read in this thread that somebody suggested Fagan was a fraud coach?
Seriously?! What game were you watching? He has turned that sinking ship around in the space of a few seasons, and might get a nice shiny cup for his trouble in 6 weeks time.
...

Yeah, Fagan and Noble have both flown the flag for coaches who haven't played AFL. And Fagan for the oldies.

[Jezza]

Thank Christ the EPL starts this weekend.

I know mate. Who do you support?

I'm a Chelsea supporter myself.

[masoncox]

Ollie Henry is a lazy footballer.
The rest of our so called young players have shown absolutely nothing

Ollie Henry turned 19 two weeks ago and didn’t play footy last year.
It was only a few weeks ago he kicked three goals against Carlton as an 18 year old. Don’t confuse lazy with not yet having the physical presence to execute repeat efforts.
You need to get a grip before you start making calls on kids playing a mans game.
And in the same breath you want to constantly defend a 6’10” mature age pussycat who can’t even crack a game in a very ordinary team.
Where’s the balance ?

Ollie henry may or not be an afl footballer
Jury is still out on that one...and it will be out for a while yet.
You go out in the first then you get judged on that....simple really.
Needs to get more urgency into his game...simple
As for Cox.... I reckon he is better than Cameron.
Also the delivery to him in the last few years has been appalling

[Magpietothemax]

We played with a wet bar of soap and couldn't handball to the chest form one meter away.

Lions played with a dry footy in perfect conditions and all hollywood passes/plays ended up being pure gold.

Simply outclassed tonight, down to bare bones in defence bar Maynard and Roughy.

Skills just not up to scratch tonight, such and inexperienced team against and seasoned lions. (who are where we are 3/4 years ago)

A lot of list holes, we need a key fwd and genuine fast/skilful small fwd. And genuine midfield class and depth... will be few years of pain I think.

Good summary Pep.
Definitely need a key forward. Lack thereof, no doubt, the legacy of Bux.
What has been exposed is that two mature bodies to run through the midfield is not enough.
We definitely need another big bodied mid for this team to provide the framework for the youngsters to develop.
My concern is: where is such a player coming from, given our screwed up capspace and consequent inability to recruit?
Defence tonight was a shambles, buit what do you expect when you have so many of your best defensive players out?

Okay, so quite a few variables manifested tonight, and that's not a bad thing.
We finally got kicked off the park - we knew it was coming; the world won't end.
No point in papering over the cracks anymore; just address them over the summer.

Firstly - we didn't have to hear Buckley's Bullshit Bulletin press conference, stating his favourite cop-out - "...we got nutted at the clearances..." Well, duh.

Secondly - the skill standard of the senior players - utterly PUTRID.
The majority of our turnovers, which were more to do with inept disposal, than direct pressure applied by Brisbane, often end up inside their F50 for a goal.
That is mostly on Buckley, however Harvey has been there long enough, and overseeing this hubris, evidently without objection. As a result, you can go too.
The next coach would want to make this the number one priority; as the fitness level isn't too far off a top eight side benchmark. But a full clean out is absolutely warranted.

Did I read in this thread that somebody suggested Fagan was a fraud coach?
Seriously?! What game were you watching? He has turned that sinking ship around in the space of a few seasons, and might get a nice shiny cup for his trouble in 6 weeks time.

As I've mentioned in the recruiting thread, we need hard bodies, if only short term, and cheap. Thus we will be relying on other sides either culling, or offloading extra cheap, due to list and cap restraints, during/prior to trade period.
There should be enough to choose from to fill some glaring gaps, even if listed as rookies.

So, main midfielder target: Josh Caddy. Richmond refuse to select him; I couldn't care f#cking less what the reasons are. If he's available - get him.

Short term forward: Josh Jenkins. Two failed seasons at Geelong.
In what world did he envisage himself getting selected ahead of Dunderklumpen and Sniper cameron? I'll be stunned if he is retained.
He is a decent mark, and acceptable shot at goal.
We won't see another T.Lynch or J.Cameron on the market for quite a while, so better take what we can get at this point in time.

We know the umpiring in the first half was just diabolical, the two dipshits and the dippy moll obviously fractured the psyche of our team, and broke us on Nicks.
All it did was gift them some goals, as did we; it simply delayed the inevitable.

And if WHE isn't already contracted going into 2022 - don't bother.
When the heat is on - he ain't interested. Another vanisher, like Varcoe was.

Essendon will have to beat us next week to make the eight; I say make them bleed and pay them back for Anzac Day shitfest we produced.

Hey Piedsy!! Loved your analysis.
Agree totally. Skill set debacle on Bux, but Harves went along with it. Other assistant coaches have stamped their mark, like Pyke. So, it is probably a reflection both of the authoritarian nature of Bux, and the lack of fight from Harves.
Agree. We desperately, above all else, need another big bodied mid for next year to provide a structure for our kids to develop within.
Whoever we can get, it has to be a big body who can bust through a few oppostiin bodies. Just get him, so the likes of McCrae, Rantall, Poulter can develop.
aS for Jenkins...not sure, as we have a few up our sleeve in Kelly, Beg, etc. i think the main thing is to just shore up the midfield. No forward can score while we can't compete for center clearances. Rather than Jenkins, get another big bodiied mid for cheap!

[Magpietothemax]

Ollie Henry is a lazy footballer.
The rest of our so called young players have shown absolutely nothing

Ollie Henry turned 19 two weeks ago and didn’t play footy last year.
It was only a few weeks ago he kicked three goals against Carlton as an 18 year old. Don’t confuse lazy with not yet having the physical presence to execute repeat efforts.
You need to get a grip before you start making calls on kids playing a mans game.
And in the same breath you want to constantly defend a 6’10” mature age pussycat who can’t even crack a game in a very ordinary team.
Where’s the balance ?

Ollie henry may or not be an afl footballer
Jury is still out on that one...and it will be out for a while yet.
You go out in the first then you get judged on that....simple really.
Needs to get more urgency into his game...simple
As for Cox.... I reckon he is better than Cameron.
Also the delivery to him in the last few years has been appalling

Has delivery to Henry, in his last 6 or 7 AFL games (not sure of the actual numvber) been brilliant??
Honestly, how you can say anything negative about Henry, on the basis of his recent performances, as a 19 year old in his first season, is utterly incomprehensible.

[Pep]

Good summary Pep.
Definitely need a key forward. Lack thereof, no doubt, the legacy of Bux.
What has been exposed is that two mature bodies to run through the midfield is not enough.
We definitely need another big bodied mid for this team to provide the framework for the youngsters to develop.
My concern is: where is such a player coming from, given our screwed up capspace and consequent inability to recruit?
Defence tonight was a shambles, buit what do you expect when you have so many of your best defensive players out?

Okay, so quite a few variables manifested tonight, and that's not a bad thing.
We finally got kicked off the park - we knew it was coming; the world won't end.
No point in papering over the cracks anymore; just address them over the summer.

Firstly - we didn't have to hear Buckley's Bullshit Bulletin press conference, stating his favourite cop-out - "...we got nutted at the clearances..." Well, duh.

Secondly - the skill standard of the senior players - utterly PUTRID.
The majority of our turnovers, which were more to do with inept disposal, than direct pressure applied by Brisbane, often end up inside their F50 for a goal.
That is mostly on Buckley, however Harvey has been there long enough, and overseeing this hubris, evidently without objection. As a result, you can go too.
The next coach would want to make this the number one priority; as the fitness level isn't too far off a top eight side benchmark. But a full clean out is absolutely warranted.

Did I read in this thread that somebody suggested Fagan was a fraud coach?
Seriously?! What game were you watching? He has turned that sinking ship around in the space of a few seasons, and might get a nice shiny cup for his trouble in 6 weeks time.

As I've mentioned in the recruiting thread, we need hard bodies, if only short term, and cheap. Thus we will be relying on other sides either culling, or offloading extra cheap, due to list and cap restraints, during/prior to trade period.
There should be enough to choose from to fill some glaring gaps, even if listed as rookies.

So, main midfielder target: Josh Caddy. Richmond refuse to select him; I couldn't care f#cking less what the reasons are. If he's available - get him.

Short term forward: Josh Jenkins. Two failed seasons at Geelong.
In what world did he envisage himself getting selected ahead of Dunderklumpen and Sniper cameron? I'll be stunned if he is retained.
He is a decent mark, and acceptable shot at goal.
We won't see another T.Lynch or J.Cameron on the market for quite a while, so better take what we can get at this point in time.

We know the umpiring in the first half was just diabolical, the two dipshits and the dippy moll obviously fractured the psyche of our team, and broke us on Nicks.
All it did was gift them some goals, as did we; it simply delayed the inevitable.

And if WHE isn't already contracted going into 2022 - don't bother.
When the heat is on - he ain't interested. Another vanisher, like Varcoe was.

Essendon will have to beat us next week to make the eight; I say make them bleed and pay them back for Anzac Day shitfest we produced.

Hey Piedsy!! Loved your analysis.
Agree totally. Skill set debacle on Bux, but Harves went along with it. Other assistant coaches have stamped their mark, like Pyke. So, it is probably a reflection both of the authoritarian nature of Bux, and the lack of fight from Harves.
Agree. We desperately, above all else, need another big bodied mid for next year to provide a structure for our kids to develop within.
Whoever we can get, it has to be a big body who can bust through a few oppostiin bodies. Just get him, so the likes of McCrae, Rantall, Poulter can develop.
aS for Jenkins...not sure, as we have a few up our sleeve in Kelly, Beg, etc. i think the main thing is to just shore up the midfield. No forward can score while we can't compete for center clearances. Rather than Jenkins, get another big bodiied mid for cheap!

Both have hit the nail on the head, I have commented on a few of the trade threads that we need good to decent mids to play a role for a few seasons so our kids can develop, we don't want/need them to be smashed into for a few seasons and get injured.
Surely, over the summer, its get stronger so we can stick tackles and practice skills, skills skills!
And please someone who can take a contested mark! We made Daniel McStay look like an AA fwd.

[piedys]

Hey Piedsy!! Loved your analysis.

Cheers bro; it was off the back off your brilliant inspiration of course!

Agree totally. Skill set debacle on Bux, but Harves went along with it. Other assistant coaches have stamped their mark, like Pyke. So, it is probably a reflection both of the authoritarian nature of Bux, and the lack of fight from Harves.

Anyhoo; 10 seasons of skills neglect coming to an abrupt end next week.
Clear the decks and start afresh would be the wise move by the board.

Agree. We desperately, above all else, need another big bodied mid for next year to provide a structure for our kids to develop within.
Whoever we can get, it has to be a big body who can bust through a few oppostiin bodies. Just get him, so the likes of McCrae, Rantall, Poulter can develop.
aS for Jenkins...not sure, as we have a few up our sleeve in Kelly, Beg, etc. i think the main thing is to just shore up the midfield.
No forward can score while we can't compete for centre clearances. Rather than Jenkins, get another big bodied mid for cheap!

We'll have to start floating a few names around in a weeks time; as we'll have not much else to talk about!

While tonight was a brutal learning curve for those kids, in a lesson of physicality, you wouldn't want too many repeats of it occurring in 2022.
They are still relatively fragile, and need some seasoned hard nuts in the contests taking those hits for sure.

Both have hit the nail on the head, I have commented on a few of the trade threads that we need good to decent mids to play a role for a few seasons so our kids can develop, we don't want/need them to be smashed into for a few seasons and get injured.
Surely, over the summer, its get stronger so we can stick tackles and practice skills, skills skills!
And please someone who can take a contested mark! We made Daniel McStay look like an AA fwd.

This, and more sir.

[Rd10.1998_11.1#36]

People wanted the coach and his defensive game plan gone. People wanted to Play the Kids. People wanted to see us take risks. Well, here we are

Ollie Henry is a lazy footballer.
The rest of our so called young players have shown absolutely nothing.
Diacos was extremely disappointing tonite.
Grundy is the most overrated player in the AFL.
Sidebottom needs to be shown the door this year.
The most scary thing is that there isn’t much there.
Nothing to get excited about.
Thankyou Ed and Thankyou Bux and thankyou to Hines and Co.
Misery AHEAD ABSOLUTELY MISERY COMING TO US SUPPORTERS

Now tell us what you really think, and don’t sugar coat it this time

[Pies2016]

Ollie Henry is a lazy footballer.
The rest of our so called young players have shown absolutely nothing

Ollie Henry turned 19 two weeks ago and didn’t play footy last year.
It was only a few weeks ago he kicked three goals against Carlton as an 18 year old. Don’t confuse lazy with not yet having the physical presence to execute repeat efforts.
You need to get a grip before you start making calls on kids playing a mans game.
And in the same breath you want to constantly defend a 6’10” mature age pussycat who can’t even crack a game in a very ordinary team.
Where’s the balance ?

Ollie henry may or not be an afl footballer
Jury is still out on that one...and it will be out for a while yet.
You go out in the first then you get judged on that....simple really.
Needs to get more urgency into his game...simple
As for Cox.... I reckon he is better than Cameron.
Also the delivery to him in the last few years has been appalling

So you judge an 18 year old the same way you would judge a 25 year old who has had 7 more seasons and 100 more games of experience ?

And you reckon Cox hadn’t had any decent delivery to him. I would hardly think Henry has had any silver service in 2021 either.

I just don’t get the angst aimed at kids on less than $100,000 a year, when it’s the senior players who always have and always will drive the performance and outcome of the game.

[Magpietothemax]

[

Cheers bro; it was off the back off your brilliant inspiration of course!

Thanks Bro!!

[MC's Mix]

Some of the comments in this thread are a damn joke, from so called 'supporters' of the club. Jesus Christ.
What did we all expect from the back end of this season, really? Of course we were going to be flogged at some point, it's a miracle it's taken this long to be fair. All we can watch for are glimmers of hope from our younger players, of which there have been plenty from where I'm sitting over the past 5-6 weeks.

Some of my favourites:

*Someone calling out Daicos? He's been one of our best all year, and someone to genuinely be excited about. Back from injury and still seemingly affected tonight.
*Saying Henry is lazy? Give me a damn spell.
*Whinging that Mason Cox isn't getting a game? He's 31 and won't be on our list next year, give it up. He's done some good things for us and his highs and lows get highlighted from his sheer size, but he's done for us now.
*Constantly laying into Grundy? He had 9 hitouts to advantage in the first quarter... The problem for us at the moment is that he's hitting it down to blokes who have played <10games. Yeah he's getting paid big bucks but I (along with heaps of others here) were happy to pay that coin to a top-tier ruckman of the comp when the SA crew came knocking. It's on our mids and coaching staff to get them to 'gel' better imo, he's doing plenty right.

Keep in mind the senior players that were missing from our 'best-22' tonight as well:
Pendles, Howey, Quaynor, Moore... A fair whack to our backline!


Anyway, I get the emotion and whatever, but reserve some judgement in 12-18 months once these kids get some games under their belt and show us what they're capable of.
I'm excited to see what Macrae, Poulter, Ginnivan, Henry, McCreery, Bianco and Reef etc can continue to do. I think that an extra year of development in them at AFL level will be huge, even considering we let some future picks go to get them in.

[Piesnchess]

Ollie Henry is a lazy footballer.
The rest of our so called young players have shown absolutely nothing.
Diacos was extremely disappointing tonite.
Grundy is the most overrated player in the AFL.
Sidebottom needs to be shown the door this year.
The most scary thing is that there isn’t much there.
Nothing to get excited about.
Thankyou Ed and Thankyou Bux and thankyou to Hines and Co.
Misery AHEAD ABSOLUTELY MISERY COMING TO US SUPPORTERS

Bit rough sledging young kids just after a few games, jeezus, they are bloody kids, give them some time, really. Maybe if some of our senior guys showed something that would help the situation.

[Piesnchess]

Only two good things to come out of that awful match, its the only real belting we have had all season, most other clubs have had more than one smashing, like the Eagles. Second, we have missed the wooden spoon, thankfully, thanks to the Swans, i dumped our game, and went over to try and get the swans home, thankfully, they gave Nth the spoon.

Oh an soon the season is over, and we have a new Coach, start afresh next season.

[K]

...
... Grundy? He had 9 hitouts to advantage in the first quarter... The problem for us at the moment is that he's hitting it down to blokes who have played <10games. Yeah he's getting paid big bucks but I (along with heaps of others here) were happy to pay that coin to a top-tier ruckman of the comp when the SA crew came knocking. It's on our mids and coaching staff to get them to 'gel' better imo, he's doing plenty right.
...

There are separate threads for this topic and related so I won't say much here...

But it's a total myth that it's Collingwood's mids' fault and not Grundy's.

And this hit out to advantage stat can be very misleading. Not much is needed to get HTA. And the HTA may have nothing to do with the ruckman. e.g. if team A's ruckman gets the hit out anywhere and team B's mid gives away a free to team A's, then it's automatically a hit out to advantage.

It's one of the most misunderstood stats in footy. (That's CD's fault for not making it clear to the clubs' coaches what it really means.)