Post Match - Pies v. Bummers ... your thoughts ??
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sq3
- Posts: 3668
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On the right track.
We are back on the right track and the boys looked short of a gallop - instead of the usual run into the ground look.
Need to be a light week after the rain running game.
Taz should be right now and I am not sure about Bux - maybe one extra for the norm. 21 days with any hammy that is no tear.
MM has to bite the bullet this week and drop the teachers pets who aren't performing - Shaw & OB with Presti very close behind.
Taz, Bux and Leon should be right this week and Tarks at the Gulls next week.
That's 4 that have to make way.
Shaw and OB seem definites - and Presti is on very thin ice.
I hate to say it but the 4th could be Lica as Swan is taking over his role and all the sides now know that Lica is very weak overhead in marking or spoiling.
C2 is the goods and will scare the shit out of heaps of defenders - but wait until Hall and Billy are right at the end of the year or 2005 - it will be carnage on the Pies forward line with Hall and C1 wrecking the opposition forwards - what a beatiful sight.
Need to be a light week after the rain running game.
Taz should be right now and I am not sure about Bux - maybe one extra for the norm. 21 days with any hammy that is no tear.
MM has to bite the bullet this week and drop the teachers pets who aren't performing - Shaw & OB with Presti very close behind.
Taz, Bux and Leon should be right this week and Tarks at the Gulls next week.
That's 4 that have to make way.
Shaw and OB seem definites - and Presti is on very thin ice.
I hate to say it but the 4th could be Lica as Swan is taking over his role and all the sides now know that Lica is very weak overhead in marking or spoiling.
C2 is the goods and will scare the shit out of heaps of defenders - but wait until Hall and Billy are right at the end of the year or 2005 - it will be carnage on the Pies forward line with Hall and C1 wrecking the opposition forwards - what a beatiful sight.
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Big T
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Can't agree with you about O'Bree assassin - he was absolutely terrible yesterday, not only in his disposal and lack of poise under pressure, but also his inability to crumb from Rocca etc pack marking attempts. All year we have had no decent crumbers apart from Leon Davis and that is costing us. We need Leon back quite badly, yes we tend to be critical of him but he will make a big difference.
I think it was a good point about McGough being young and the favorites tag is a bit overused, however if you can drop Mullins after last week and keep O'Bree and Shaw in the team then questions will be asked, especially when Mullins is in the best for Willi. On the other hand I guess 99% of people on this website would have dropped Cloke etc at times and MM has proven correct in persisting. However Shaw is basically embarressing himself and the Collingwood Football Club and needs to be dropped immediately. He still may have a part to play but it is not at the moment especially against a hardened unit like Port at home.
Also very disappointed with Lonie, does not seem willing to run with the ball. Maybe this week he can play like he did against Port in his first year at AAMI stadium - that performance I will never forget and would love to see a repeat.
On the Johnson incident - was nothing compared to hits that have been let off like Lynch and Biglands first hit of the year. If he gets rubbed out there needs to be a royal commission. I would let BW Phantom conduct it!
I think it was a good point about McGough being young and the favorites tag is a bit overused, however if you can drop Mullins after last week and keep O'Bree and Shaw in the team then questions will be asked, especially when Mullins is in the best for Willi. On the other hand I guess 99% of people on this website would have dropped Cloke etc at times and MM has proven correct in persisting. However Shaw is basically embarressing himself and the Collingwood Football Club and needs to be dropped immediately. He still may have a part to play but it is not at the moment especially against a hardened unit like Port at home.
Also very disappointed with Lonie, does not seem willing to run with the ball. Maybe this week he can play like he did against Port in his first year at AAMI stadium - that performance I will never forget and would love to see a repeat.
On the Johnson incident - was nothing compared to hits that have been let off like Lynch and Biglands first hit of the year. If he gets rubbed out there needs to be a royal commission. I would let BW Phantom conduct it!
Buon Giorno
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magpie meg
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I HATE UMPIRES!!!!!! I cant believe that nobody has commented on how terrible the umpires were yesterday. They decided who was going to win the game yesterday. Essendon had 3 or 4 free kicks that werent there, in there forward 50 that resulted directly in goals. Whereas down the other end we didn't get the same treatment, especially the high tackle on dids in our forward 50 in the 1st quater that should have been a free kick and goal. And what about the 2 50 meter penalites that were not payed in the second half. I can now see what bagging an umpire and bringing the game into disripute then paying $20,000 gets you. Bombers will now make top 4 with the umpires always on their side!!!!!!
On to some of the positives, Goughy was brilliant, and yes he has learnt to kick apart from a couple of blunders later on when he was getting tired, didnt stop trying and even kicked 2 goals. I might be biased with goughy cause in my eyes he is the next buckley, but we would have one the 2002 granny with him.
Cam Cloke showed some heart and our forward structure looked healthier with cam and pebbles, and with tazza LOOK OUT. and nxt year tazza, pebbs, cam and tom WOW! my fave moment was on the boundary line when some essenscum player tried to rough up cam he took no s**t pushed him and them in runs big bro jase, it was a grat site to see.
Welcome back jason cloke, game time and a bit of confidence does wonders he even looked good in the forward 50!!!
last nite after our loss my coesins and i sat down and were talking about the age of our club and we worked out that at this very moment our average age (of the entire list - including rookies) is 21.5!!! that is extremely young, not to mention only 19 of our 43 players have played over 50 games. 13 of them played against ess. not to metion 31 of our players are 24 or younger - they are still babies.
We are blooding younsters but the one thing that needs to be looked at is playing the youngsters and giving them game time and dropping back players like breeser and shaw.
Shaw needs to go back and get some confidence. My main problem with shaw is that he is not coragerous, late in the brissy game he showed some heart but since then he doesnt give a contest, doesnt chase, in fact he is fast becoming a wimp that opposistions can target.
Overall with bucks and tazz we are a 5 goal better side, then add tarks and leon and finals here we come!!! GO PIES and GO GOUGHY
On to some of the positives, Goughy was brilliant, and yes he has learnt to kick apart from a couple of blunders later on when he was getting tired, didnt stop trying and even kicked 2 goals. I might be biased with goughy cause in my eyes he is the next buckley, but we would have one the 2002 granny with him.
Cam Cloke showed some heart and our forward structure looked healthier with cam and pebbles, and with tazza LOOK OUT. and nxt year tazza, pebbs, cam and tom WOW! my fave moment was on the boundary line when some essenscum player tried to rough up cam he took no s**t pushed him and them in runs big bro jase, it was a grat site to see.
Welcome back jason cloke, game time and a bit of confidence does wonders he even looked good in the forward 50!!!
last nite after our loss my coesins and i sat down and were talking about the age of our club and we worked out that at this very moment our average age (of the entire list - including rookies) is 21.5!!! that is extremely young, not to mention only 19 of our 43 players have played over 50 games. 13 of them played against ess. not to metion 31 of our players are 24 or younger - they are still babies.
We are blooding younsters but the one thing that needs to be looked at is playing the youngsters and giving them game time and dropping back players like breeser and shaw.
Shaw needs to go back and get some confidence. My main problem with shaw is that he is not coragerous, late in the brissy game he showed some heart but since then he doesnt give a contest, doesnt chase, in fact he is fast becoming a wimp that opposistions can target.
Overall with bucks and tazz we are a 5 goal better side, then add tarks and leon and finals here we come!!! GO PIES and GO GOUGHY
Partyn & the pies is there nemore to life???
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virbull
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- Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:08 pm
G'day guys, this is virbull.
I am actually an Essendon supporter, my wife is a pie. I just wanted to say that the Pies had a red hot go, and the game was tight, apart from the first quarter and a period in the last.
At least your players have a dip, unlike the Tigers....
Well done, with Buckley and Tarrant back you will be back in the hunt. As Sheedy said at the end of the game...both teams have a way to go.
Good Luck....
Virbull
I am actually an Essendon supporter, my wife is a pie. I just wanted to say that the Pies had a red hot go, and the game was tight, apart from the first quarter and a period in the last.
At least your players have a dip, unlike the Tigers....
Well done, with Buckley and Tarrant back you will be back in the hunt. As Sheedy said at the end of the game...both teams have a way to go.
Good Luck....
Virbull
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Mick's My Favourite
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:10 pm
Assasian
That is the exact thinking that cost us the premiership two years ago!!!!
McGough is a junior player
O'Bree is a senior player
that is Crap...each player no matter what age should be picked on pure ability....Mick doesn't do that....he has his senior players whom no matter how crap they play, he continues to keep them in the team, and young blokes like McGough who get rotated to the bench even if they have had 10 kicks in the quarter..and invariably get dumped back to Williamstown..
Micks favourites are O'bree, Williams, Shaw, Lucuria (who has had a crap season for a dual Copeland supposed leader of the club),
how the hell did Mullens get dropped last week after such a good game?
Junior or Senior player don't mean a thing if they play Crap!!!!!!!!
That is the exact thinking that cost us the premiership two years ago!!!!
McGough is a junior player
O'Bree is a senior player
that is Crap...each player no matter what age should be picked on pure ability....Mick doesn't do that....he has his senior players whom no matter how crap they play, he continues to keep them in the team, and young blokes like McGough who get rotated to the bench even if they have had 10 kicks in the quarter..and invariably get dumped back to Williamstown..
Micks favourites are O'bree, Williams, Shaw, Lucuria (who has had a crap season for a dual Copeland supposed leader of the club),
how the hell did Mullens get dropped last week after such a good game?
Junior or Senior player don't mean a thing if they play Crap!!!!!!!!
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erniedog
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 3:23 pm
Why did we lose?
Some posters have said Hird was the difference others that they flooded and we didn't.
As to the "Hird" factor, sure he was good but McGough was almost if not as good. As well, we had as many "good" players as they did (Didak, Cole, Wowodin etc) and as most posters indicate we had relatively few passengers (last year we managed to win against good teams with Williams, O'bree and others as passengers)
As to chipping on the flanks etc. that has been our game plan for the last 2 years ie. keep possession until such time as an option becomes available. If you can't find an option, then keep it in the forward line and win the set play. This has beaten even floodmasters such as the Swans.
The problem is that this year, for some reason, no option is becoming available and in the set plays, we are not keeping the ball in the forward line rather, it is being swept forward too quickly for our backline to set themselves. It is true that our options have been reduced by the unavailability of Rocca initially and then Tarrant so that teams could double up on our only option without exposing themselves. But it could also be that after 2 years, the oposition has worked out our gameplan and have perfected a flood that our possession game cannot overcome.
If that's the case then perhaps we should rework our structure and game plan. A Brisbane type of plan requires 2 power forwards (Brown, Lynch) with additional marking/mobile options in Voss, Pike and stong crumbers. We currently have 1 power forward - Rocca, a mobile lead -Tarrant and crumbers in Didak and Davis. We need an additional power forward and mor mobile/marking options. C. Cloke may not be a Brown or Lynch, but he adds the required strength and can double up as a handy ruckman. Burns would be ideal as a mini power-forward, mobile, a good mark and strong. With a forward line like that (Rocca, Tarrant, Didak, Burns, Davis, C.Cloke) the team would be confident in bringing the ball in quickly to a 50/50.
I would have Fraser on a wing as he is mobile enough to play the position and would be impossible to match up on. The other wing would be Buckly who would thus be freed to run and relieved of constant physical assault.
McGough, Wowodin, Holland and Licuria in the centre. All of these are tough, good ball winners and good in traffic. Johnson, Cole, Didak could be regular centre interchanges with Buckly and Burns occassional ones. Richards for the bounce with instructions to move back immediately afterwards since tall ruckmen forward of centre would be more than covered without him.
With Richard, and J.Cloke as effective extra backman, helped by a mobile Fraser, the leads of power forwards such as Brown and Lynch would be choked off and with Buckly, Fraser, Lonie, Johnson, Cole etc. you could almost instantly spring into attack with the confidence that every forward has the ability to win a 50/50.
Further, I would instruct Lonie, Didak, Rocca, Clement, Buckly and Tarrant to shoot if in range if the back is flooded. This would have 2 effects, a 50/50 from outside 50 is better than trying for a 30/70 pass inside 50. Further, if the opposition thinks they may be conceding a goal from outside 50, they would be in 2 minds as to whether to flood back or go forward to stop the shot.
Some posters have said Hird was the difference others that they flooded and we didn't.
As to the "Hird" factor, sure he was good but McGough was almost if not as good. As well, we had as many "good" players as they did (Didak, Cole, Wowodin etc) and as most posters indicate we had relatively few passengers (last year we managed to win against good teams with Williams, O'bree and others as passengers)
As to chipping on the flanks etc. that has been our game plan for the last 2 years ie. keep possession until such time as an option becomes available. If you can't find an option, then keep it in the forward line and win the set play. This has beaten even floodmasters such as the Swans.
The problem is that this year, for some reason, no option is becoming available and in the set plays, we are not keeping the ball in the forward line rather, it is being swept forward too quickly for our backline to set themselves. It is true that our options have been reduced by the unavailability of Rocca initially and then Tarrant so that teams could double up on our only option without exposing themselves. But it could also be that after 2 years, the oposition has worked out our gameplan and have perfected a flood that our possession game cannot overcome.
If that's the case then perhaps we should rework our structure and game plan. A Brisbane type of plan requires 2 power forwards (Brown, Lynch) with additional marking/mobile options in Voss, Pike and stong crumbers. We currently have 1 power forward - Rocca, a mobile lead -Tarrant and crumbers in Didak and Davis. We need an additional power forward and mor mobile/marking options. C. Cloke may not be a Brown or Lynch, but he adds the required strength and can double up as a handy ruckman. Burns would be ideal as a mini power-forward, mobile, a good mark and strong. With a forward line like that (Rocca, Tarrant, Didak, Burns, Davis, C.Cloke) the team would be confident in bringing the ball in quickly to a 50/50.
I would have Fraser on a wing as he is mobile enough to play the position and would be impossible to match up on. The other wing would be Buckly who would thus be freed to run and relieved of constant physical assault.
McGough, Wowodin, Holland and Licuria in the centre. All of these are tough, good ball winners and good in traffic. Johnson, Cole, Didak could be regular centre interchanges with Buckly and Burns occassional ones. Richards for the bounce with instructions to move back immediately afterwards since tall ruckmen forward of centre would be more than covered without him.
With Richard, and J.Cloke as effective extra backman, helped by a mobile Fraser, the leads of power forwards such as Brown and Lynch would be choked off and with Buckly, Fraser, Lonie, Johnson, Cole etc. you could almost instantly spring into attack with the confidence that every forward has the ability to win a 50/50.
Further, I would instruct Lonie, Didak, Rocca, Clement, Buckly and Tarrant to shoot if in range if the back is flooded. This would have 2 effects, a 50/50 from outside 50 is better than trying for a 30/70 pass inside 50. Further, if the opposition thinks they may be conceding a goal from outside 50, they would be in 2 minds as to whether to flood back or go forward to stop the shot.
Beware the embrace of the collingwood python
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Mick's My Favourite
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Cam
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Hird had more influence over the result of the game than McGough did, fine as McGoughs game was. Hird kicked goals, set them up, rebounded, smothered, stopped us whenever we looked like taking over in the 2nd half. He did everything at both ends of the ground. Without him we would have easily won.
They are stuffed when he retires.
They are stuffed when he retires.
Get back on top.
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Mick's My Favourite
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maggies2003
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