Transgender politics and social issues

[watt price tully]

[David]

I think Greer's views on the matter are generally seen as terribly outdated now, and even those who defended her right to free speech (as I did) tended to see them as offensive and misguided. Of course you're entitled to agree with her (or sit on the fence ) but to my mind she seems to take an unnecessarily fundamentalist approach to deciding what a 'real' woman is, particularly given the core feminist view (to which she surely at least somewhat subscribes) that gender is constructed.

Anyway, perhaps even she wouldn't oppose trans women being allowed to play the sport of their choice. Ultimately it's all about inclusion vs exclusion I think.

[thesoretoothsayer]

I deal regularly in my work with troubled transgendered people.

Sounds like a tough gig.

I can think of few things more emotionally or mentally challenging than to conclude that you're trapped in the wrong body.
It must be hell both for the individual concerned and those close to them.

[watt price tully]

I deal regularly in my work with troubled transgendered people.

Sounds like a tough gig.

I can think of few things more emotionally or mentally challenging than to conclude that you're trapped in the wrong body.
It must be hell both for the individual concerned and those close to them.

I don't deal with their trangender issues. I merely assess mental state & risk and determine disposition: what next for the person being assessed?:

1. home no assistance,
2. home GP,
3. home usual supports,
4. home private psychologist etc,
5. home and crisis mental health,
6. admit voluntarly
7. admit as a "compulsory person" that is against their will.
7. admit medical if medical issues that warrant an admission then refer to general medical mental health otherwise known as "consultation liaison mental health"

after that I get on with the next assessment. So no big isues so to speak regarding transgender.

[David]

[stui magpie]

[stui magpie]

[thesoretoothsayer]

Even if trans female athletes wanted to compete in men's competitions (and it's obvious why they wouldn't want to, as it would be a complete negation of their identity), it's not clear that they would be permitted to under the rules of the sport, given that they are legally female. And, in any case, that would only satisfy the 'fairness' brigade half of the time: we've already seen complaints in this thread about trans male athletes (on hormone replacement therapy) competing in female competition. As I said, some people won't be happy until transgender people retreat to a ghetto and/or disappear from public life altogether. Thankfully, sporting code administrators tend to be a little more forward-thinking.

So I assume you support an offender who identifies as a woman being sent to a woman's prison?

[David]

[Bucks5]

Maybe I will throw this into the mix.....

https://nypost.com/2018/07/30/man-legal ... ce-report/

[HAL]

Do you think your plan will succeed?

[ronrat]

So I assume you support an offender who identifies as a woman being sent to a woman's prison?

This is a big issue in Thailand ,Alot of the transexexuals end up in the bar game and get on drugs and rob tourists. When they get caught they are sent to a male prison andshare a cell with up to 20 others with no privacy, Tv, internet . You need not guess what goes for entertainment. They are only know looking st segregating them because prison rape seems to fall under "You do the crime you do the crime". The latest is they will ban cigarettes in Jails as well. Could well be riots.

[David]

[thesoretoothsayer]

[Tannin]

right-wing radical feminist groups..

"right-wing" actually means something. Same as "nazi" and "fascist". They don't just mean someone I disagree with. Calling a radical lesbian feminist right-wing is quite a leap.

"Nazi" and "fascist" do not mean the same thing, though they are fairly similar. A pretty reasonable first approximation would be to say that all Nazis are fascists, but not all fascists are Nazis. All fascists (and thus all Nazis) are right-wing, but not all right-wingers are fascists.

There is a second distinction, albeit an imprecise one. While both fascists and Nazis are extreme right wingers, fascists tend to come from within, often high up within, society's most conservative institutions (churches, banks, aristocratic families, army and navy, law and law enforcement), while Nazis tend to come from outside the leadership of those institutions, or from subordinate positions within them, and often want to tear the institutions down and rebuild them into a new image.

Think of the difference between Vice-President Mike Pence (a fascist type) and Donald Trump (essentially a Nazi).

A Fascist (capital "F") is a member of Italy's ruling party of the 1930s. A fascist (lower-case "f") could be a Fascist (albeit a very old one now), but is more likely a member of, supporter of, or fellow traveller with any of the many ultra-right-wing parties around the world. (Is it possible to be ultra-right-wing and not a fascist? Probably yes, but I'd have to think about that.)

Probably we should have a term "nazi" (lower-case "n") to denote Nazi-like people who don't live in Hitler's Germany-Austria byt my spell-checker at least doesn't recognise the term uncapitalised. Let's use it anyway.

I cannot think of any feminist nazis or fascists, not off the top of my head, but there is no logical reason you couldn't have such a thing. OK, real feminism is about fairness and equality, both foreign concepts to fascism and nazism, but modern third wave feminism has morphed into an ideology of inequality and revenge (classic Nazi themes), so the parallel is there. Indeed, anti-egalitarian Nazism emerged out of the by-definition egalitarian communist movement, so there is a second parallel.

Here in Australia, if you want to be accurate to type, you shouldn't call the likes of Tony Abbott and Eric Abetz and Senator Bestiality "nazis" as they are strong supporters of conservative memes and institutions and tend to be only accidental racists; "fascists" is a better-suited term. For nazi-like Australians, look to the likes of Dutton and Hanson.