Tugga's Replacement
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Ev5Magpies
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Fradam
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Innes has much better fist class figures than Bracken but doesn't get a game. Hodge is a much better player than Katich. Martin Love is a much better player than Katich and should be the first in.
We keep making the Pura Cup final, Hodge and Innes keep performing, blokes that arn't performing get a go for Australia. I struggle to see the fairness.
We keep making the Pura Cup final, Hodge and Innes keep performing, blokes that arn't performing get a go for Australia. I struggle to see the fairness.
Do I look like the tech?
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commonwombat
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As mentioned earlier, yr Inness bleat has considerable merit however please recognise the inescapable fact that he was out there on the park bowling when this vacancy came up. If he was, then he could well have been playing for Australia now. Sadly, he was not so please do not try to rewrite history to suit yr own arguments or lack thereof.
Big call that Fradam, that Hodge is a much better player than Katich and so is Love. Now I really do rate Martin Love extremely highly but let's look at their relative strengths.
Martin Love is a no.3 batsman and a very good one at that but at Test level has had to bat at 6 and he has performed admirably but one can argue that he has not been seen to best advantage. Katich bats 3 for NSW but seems at home anywhere in the order. Hodge bats generally 4.
Thought I would for once play the stats comparison for their first class careers.
Love: 29 y.o; debut 92-93; 153 matches; 12111 runs, 300*HS; ave 50.46; 28 100's and 55 50's.
Katich: 28 y.o; debut 96-97; 108 matches; 8077 runs; 228 HS; ave 50.79; 23 100's and 41 50's. (these not incl current Test)
Hodge: 29 y.o; debut 93-94; 124 matches; 8771 runs; 300*HS; AVE 43.63; 26 100's and 32 50's.
Slight discrepancy there and not to the advantage of yr argument, Fradam.
Big call that Fradam, that Hodge is a much better player than Katich and so is Love. Now I really do rate Martin Love extremely highly but let's look at their relative strengths.
Martin Love is a no.3 batsman and a very good one at that but at Test level has had to bat at 6 and he has performed admirably but one can argue that he has not been seen to best advantage. Katich bats 3 for NSW but seems at home anywhere in the order. Hodge bats generally 4.
Thought I would for once play the stats comparison for their first class careers.
Love: 29 y.o; debut 92-93; 153 matches; 12111 runs, 300*HS; ave 50.46; 28 100's and 55 50's.
Katich: 28 y.o; debut 96-97; 108 matches; 8077 runs; 228 HS; ave 50.79; 23 100's and 41 50's. (these not incl current Test)
Hodge: 29 y.o; debut 93-94; 124 matches; 8771 runs; 300*HS; AVE 43.63; 26 100's and 32 50's.
Slight discrepancy there and not to the advantage of yr argument, Fradam.
he's an animal, what can u expect!!!
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JLC
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The other advantage is that Love can catch.....lol How many runs have Katichs misses cost Australia in the last two tests ??
The other obvious point is that he wasnt in the team. He moves to NSW and doesnt score a century yet all of a sudden is in the Australian team.
Its not so much being on the park at the right time its more being in the right STATE at the right time.
The only TWO tests where the "horses for courses" theory applies are the GABBA and the SCG.
jlc
The other obvious point is that he wasnt in the team. He moves to NSW and doesnt score a century yet all of a sudden is in the Australian team.
Its not so much being on the park at the right time its more being in the right STATE at the right time.
The only TWO tests where the "horses for courses" theory applies are the GABBA and the SCG.
jlc
The Torres bounce is officially dead. You are walking alone now Fernando.
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Donny
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Is Hookesy a relation of yours, JLC ?
What's the connection between playing for NSW and Australia ? There is no representative from NSW on the national selection panel.
Steve Waugh is the Australian captain, not a selector.
When Lehmann got injured and the upcoming Test was due to be played in Sydney, Katich came into the frame because he represented a better replacement than Love as he could bowl spinners.
As it turned out, he hit a half century and ran through Zimbabwe (6 wickets in the second innings) to win the Test for Australia.
May I remind you Martin Love has also dropped a sitter at 1st. slip in a Test. It can happen to the best.
What's the connection between playing for NSW and Australia ? There is no representative from NSW on the national selection panel.
Steve Waugh is the Australian captain, not a selector.
When Lehmann got injured and the upcoming Test was due to be played in Sydney, Katich came into the frame because he represented a better replacement than Love as he could bowl spinners.
As it turned out, he hit a half century and ran through Zimbabwe (6 wickets in the second innings) to win the Test for Australia.
May I remind you Martin Love has also dropped a sitter at 1st. slip in a Test. It can happen to the best.
Donny.
It's a game. Enjoy it.
It's a game. Enjoy it.
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JLC
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Well NSW over time has been the dominant cricket state. Howere the pendulum is swinging yet for some reason there is still a perceived bias in the selection.
It does seem odd that Bracken would be given an opportunity when his figures are not that exceptional compared to other bowlers around the country??
Now you talk about Katich. Hasnt Martin Love scored double hundreds against the touring teams ? Katich hasnt dropped one catch he has dropped THREE in two tests. If we are back to the stage of picking batsman on the basis that they can roll their arm over then that isnt a good sign. Batsman should be picked because of their batting ability. The days of trying to turn the likes of Bevan into an all rounder are hopefully gone unless we are playing Bangladesh.
jlc
It does seem odd that Bracken would be given an opportunity when his figures are not that exceptional compared to other bowlers around the country??
Now you talk about Katich. Hasnt Martin Love scored double hundreds against the touring teams ? Katich hasnt dropped one catch he has dropped THREE in two tests. If we are back to the stage of picking batsman on the basis that they can roll their arm over then that isnt a good sign. Batsman should be picked because of their batting ability. The days of trying to turn the likes of Bevan into an all rounder are hopefully gone unless we are playing Bangladesh.
jlc
The Torres bounce is officially dead. You are walking alone now Fernando.
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commonwombat
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Yep, Katich has dropped 2 in the past 2 matches and they've been costly. He is also no orphan as I can also recall people like Langer and R T Ponting dropping some as well. Love IS a sensational first slipper and took some beauties in his first Test but has also dropped a few too.
Let's recognise the situation. The vacancy that has come up has been due to Lehmann's injury. Therefore a position at 5-6 in the order. Due to the fact of Warne's self inflicted absence and the fact that Lehmann had been picking up Test wickets with some useful spin, this added to the quotient.
Katich did not have a sensational 02-03 season with the bat for NSW (although a better one than Bradley). It was hardly a case of joining NSW and voila yr automatically in the team. He did however pick up a number of Pura Cup wickets bowling left arm spin.
Come Lehmann's injury and his productive start to the season, he was an ideal fit for the position. Love could bat admirably at 6, but would be best employed at the top of the order where there is no current vacancy, and Katich's bowling tipped the scale.
Yr right state at the right time is amusing. Yes, over the years there have been some shocking imposters from NSW inflicted on Australian cricket as there have been from all states. Victoria HAS held a whip hand in Australian cricket at times and over my 30 years or cricket involvement has certainly added it's share of shockers. What comes around goes around.
Vic's Pura Cup performances are admirable and they suffer much less disturbances from intl call ups at the moment. Warne is off the scene but is rarely seen in a Vic shirt anyway. To be honest, the majority of their side are not intl prospects in any shape or form.
I respect the Inness/Bracken argument but Inness missed any chance by being injured, fact. Elliott is intl class but there is currently no opening berths available and age will probably preclude any long term recall. Hodge was in the zone for middle order vacancy but was not at the head of the queue. Any others, and you are going into the realm or could be's and might be's.
I may live in Sydney but I have no loyalties whatsoever to NSW cricket and indded hold much of it in considerable distaste. I have also worked and lived in Melbourne for considerable periods so please don't tar me with an anti-Victotian bias. I try and look on this dispassionately and sadly find much of these "Vics hardly done by" arguments to be long on rhetoric but less soundly based.
Let's recognise the situation. The vacancy that has come up has been due to Lehmann's injury. Therefore a position at 5-6 in the order. Due to the fact of Warne's self inflicted absence and the fact that Lehmann had been picking up Test wickets with some useful spin, this added to the quotient.
Katich did not have a sensational 02-03 season with the bat for NSW (although a better one than Bradley). It was hardly a case of joining NSW and voila yr automatically in the team. He did however pick up a number of Pura Cup wickets bowling left arm spin.
Come Lehmann's injury and his productive start to the season, he was an ideal fit for the position. Love could bat admirably at 6, but would be best employed at the top of the order where there is no current vacancy, and Katich's bowling tipped the scale.
Yr right state at the right time is amusing. Yes, over the years there have been some shocking imposters from NSW inflicted on Australian cricket as there have been from all states. Victoria HAS held a whip hand in Australian cricket at times and over my 30 years or cricket involvement has certainly added it's share of shockers. What comes around goes around.
Vic's Pura Cup performances are admirable and they suffer much less disturbances from intl call ups at the moment. Warne is off the scene but is rarely seen in a Vic shirt anyway. To be honest, the majority of their side are not intl prospects in any shape or form.
I respect the Inness/Bracken argument but Inness missed any chance by being injured, fact. Elliott is intl class but there is currently no opening berths available and age will probably preclude any long term recall. Hodge was in the zone for middle order vacancy but was not at the head of the queue. Any others, and you are going into the realm or could be's and might be's.
I may live in Sydney but I have no loyalties whatsoever to NSW cricket and indded hold much of it in considerable distaste. I have also worked and lived in Melbourne for considerable periods so please don't tar me with an anti-Victotian bias. I try and look on this dispassionately and sadly find much of these "Vics hardly done by" arguments to be long on rhetoric but less soundly based.
he's an animal, what can u expect!!!
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Fradam
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Martin Love has batted 6 for Australia and done well so I don't buy the arguement that Katich is more suited to 6 than Love is
Last edited by Fradam on Tue Jan 06, 2004 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Do I look like the tech?
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JLC
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I think Katich has scored himself some big brownie points by performing under pressure.
He has secured his position for the short term. So the ends have justified the means in this case.
That leaves the spot for Love Clarke or Hodge. It will be interesting to see what happens if Hodge makes a big score against NSW. Lets not forget Hodge made a double ton against the Indians this summer.
I think the heat will be on Damian Martyn as he fails to fire regularly when Australia needs it most.
jlc
He has secured his position for the short term. So the ends have justified the means in this case.
That leaves the spot for Love Clarke or Hodge. It will be interesting to see what happens if Hodge makes a big score against NSW. Lets not forget Hodge made a double ton against the Indians this summer.
I think the heat will be on Damian Martyn as he fails to fire regularly when Australia needs it most.
jlc
The Torres bounce is officially dead. You are walking alone now Fernando.
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commonwombat
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Fradam,
A read of my posts woluld show that I have never said that Love cannot bat at 6, he has performed very well there for Australia.
The point is that Love IS a top order batsman and is best suited there. Please analyse his first class record, even cast yr mind back to the A team match.
Katich's bowling sideline sealed him the Lehmann vacancy. To my mind he has justified his selection. Love deserves more Test opportunities and indeed should probably be first cab in the rank. Clarke is certainly talented enough but am yet to be convinced that he should be rushed into the team.
A read of my posts woluld show that I have never said that Love cannot bat at 6, he has performed very well there for Australia.
The point is that Love IS a top order batsman and is best suited there. Please analyse his first class record, even cast yr mind back to the A team match.
Katich's bowling sideline sealed him the Lehmann vacancy. To my mind he has justified his selection. Love deserves more Test opportunities and indeed should probably be first cab in the rank. Clarke is certainly talented enough but am yet to be convinced that he should be rushed into the team.
he's an animal, what can u expect!!!
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The Prototype
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I think picking Katich was a good decision, he's batted well against India in this test match. I think his catching needs a lot of work, also some other Australian players. I'd go for Love, they need another decent slips fielder, since Mark Waugh left they have been lacking in the slips, though Hayden has done a very good job, putting someone like Ponting there is a mistake.