North Korea

[Pa Marmo]

Fix bayonets lads, we are going to war.

[Pi]

this is what Henry Kissinger has to say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrcxxfYI37E

[David]

Kissinger? Great! I eagerly await the opinions of Genghis Khan and Ivan the Terrible on how to achieve world peace.

[swoop42]

I'm more shocked that he's still alive.

He looked old when he was young.

Possible evidence of vampire existence?

[Pi]

^

that's what I thought , hes 94 years old

not bad effort for that age

[stui magpie]

I read online somewhere that NK are (apparently) planning a test full launch of an ICBM for Saturday.

that's testing it's full range so if it works it's going to travel some distance and unless they're seriously improved things, phark knows where it might land.

bad enough if it hasn't got a warhead, but if they fire a live one with a nuke on top, all hell will break loose.

If they're lucky and it just lands in the ocean somewhere, it will be an ecological disaster.

If it hits somewhere inhabited, Oh shit.

[Wokko]

They wouldn't do a live nuclear ICBM test, USA hasn't done one of those since 1962 and it was the only one they did.

[stui magpie]

Didn't China do one around 66, to prove they could?

[David]

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=19278

The US has to accept North Korea as a nuclear power
Alon Ben-Meir

[...]

To prevent further escalation of the conflict, the US needs to eventually accept the new reality of a nuclear North Korea just as it had come to terms with both India and Pakistan as nuclear powers, which created mutual deterrence and brought an end to the conventional wars between the two countries.

Indeed, the real threat to the US and its allies does not emanate from North Korea's possession of a nuclear arsenal, but from the development and deployment of ICBMs mounted with miniaturized nuclear warheads that could reach not only US allies, but the US mainland itself. To remove this threat, the US should negotiate directly with North Korea and reach an agreement that would freeze further development of such technology, which China would certainly support.

North Korea may well accede through negotiations to this demand, as they can still claim to be a nuclear power and receive the recognition and respect of the international community which they desperately crave.

In return, North Korea will require the US to end its belligerent policy that has been in place since the end of the Korean war; that the US commits not to seek regime change, which was and still is the main motivator behind their pursuit of a nuclear shield; and that the US end its war games with South Korea and gradually remove the sanctions.

The lifting of the sanctions is extraordinarily important to mitigate the humanitarian crisis that has been inflicted on 25 million North Koreans, especially women and children, for nearly seven decades. Although humanitarian aid is exempt from diplomatic sanctions, more than 10 million citizens are undernourished and suffer from chronic food insecurity, which is tragically ignored or forgotten by the rest of the international community.

Based on the above terms, North Korea will have to fully comply to every provision of the accord, rejoin the Non-Proliferation Treaty, and adhere to the rules and requirements of the International Atomic Energy Agency, especially on the stationing of monitors and stringent inspections to ensure full compliance.

Given the experience of previous successive American administrations with North Korea, which have tried every conceivable approach to end the North Korean nuclear program including sanctions, negotiations, military threats, and isolation, none have worked because Pyongyang was determined not to surrender its nuclear weapons and be vulnerable to regime change.

We must now accept the fact that North Korea is a nuclear power, and rely on nuclear deterrence while normalizing relations in the process. Anything else is wishful thinking, and Kim Jong Un knows that only too well.

[Pi]

^

Sure, lets make sure Japan and South Korea has Nukes as well,

...hell ; Australia might as well get them ....or admit we sort of have them

[swoop42]

With these new sanctions imposed expect a new missile test any day I assume.

I'm feeling more pessimistic that this isn't going to end well.

[Pies4shaw]

I don't know why. I'm entirely optimistic that it isn't going to end well.

[David]

^

Sure, lets make sure Japan and South Korea has Nukes as well,

...hell ; Australia might as well get them ....or admit we sort of have them

Ideally, no country should have nukes, and the entire global community should be constantly working to reduce existing stockpiles and preventing new countries (not just the 'bad' ones) from getting them, as a matter of urgency. But our justifications as to why, say, China should be allowed to have them but Japan shouldn't don't make any sense. Ultimately the only deciding factor is power, and which countries can get away with it. North Korea isn't an otherwise powerful country, but they've managed to blackmail the world into allowing them to get nukes. That's no more or less legitimate than the methods the US and China have used to build their stockpiles. Add NK to the list, get over it and work on the best strategies to prevent them from ever using them, while continuing to provide incentives for them (and other countries) to disarm.

[Pies4shaw]

I have some double-chocolate tim-tams. Perhaps they might like some of those in exchange for general disarmament?

[stui magpie]

^

Sure, lets make sure Japan and South Korea has Nukes as well,

...hell ; Australia might as well get them ....or admit we sort of have them

Ideally, no country should have nukes, and the entire global community should be constantly working to reduce existing stockpiles and preventing new countries (not just the 'bad' ones) from getting them, as a matter of urgency. But our justifications as to why, say, China should be allowed to have them but Japan shouldn't don't make any sense. Ultimately the only deciding factor is power, and which countries can get away with it. North Korea isn't an otherwise powerful country, but they've managed to blackmail the world into allowing them to get nukes. That's no more or less legitimate than the methods the US and China have used to build their stockpiles. Add NK to the list, get over it and work on the best strategies to prevent them from ever using them, while continuing to provide incentives for them (and other countries) to disarm.

My reading isn't that they blackmailed people into letting them get nukes, more like they played a game of bluff and won.

A harder stance a few years ago, we wouldn't be where we are now, but would the public have accepted a harder stance back then with no evidence they were dangerous?