Is Willy the Collingwood reserves ?

Trippy Pie · Post by **Trippy Pie** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:43 am

This thread came from the replies to this from Dale in another thread in GD:
"However, my biggest pet hate is when someone refers to Williamstown as the Collingwood reserves. Williamstown has a reserves side, Collingwood doesn't. Accept that fact that there is no longer an AFL reserves competition. Collingwood and Williamstown have an alliance, and therefore, have separate identities."
- Donny for bbmods
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is that why Williamstown changed their club song and have an assistant coach from Collingwood as their coach?

I always thought an assistant coach, coached a seconds side.

Dale61 · Post by **Dale61** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:47 am

I'm not fully up to speed on the intricacies of the alliance as it all happened prior to my return to Melbourne, so maybe your questions, as above, should be directed to either of the clubs.

What I do know is that both clubs songs are similar in tune only.

I would assume that the coaching scenario would be a way to have better communication on players progress.

In regards to your last sentence, why then isn't Rowdy and TD coaching a 'seconds' side? They are both assistant coaches at Collingwood. Also, why isn't Adrian Fletcher, who is assistant coach at Williamstown, coaching the Williamstown reserves?

Speaking of Fletch, it has been rumoured that he could be offered a job as an assistant coach at the Kangaroos, which could then see him become the coach of Port Melbourne. With your way of thinking, does this mean Port will now become the Kangaroos 'reserves' side, or will they remain as Port Melbourne?

Trippy Pie · Post by **Trippy Pie** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:23 am

I do believe that both Rowdy and T.D have spent more than one training session with the Williamstown boys. Fletchers role at Willy is to pass on his knowledge to the midfield, at the Pies or the Gulls. Even M.M has taken the odd training session.

As you continue to harp on how both teams are seperate entities, does this mean that all the Collingwood people who have been going along to support the boys since both teams ALIGNED themselves these past seasons should stop supporting Willy and go back to following the team they use to.

I myself have family connections with port going back to the twenties. This years prelim against port had me agonising over who to follow but as soon as I saw the Magpie connection it was not a hard choice for me to make.

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:30 am

The teams are aligned, but the Gulls are not our 'seconds'.

Greg J · Post by **Greg J** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:07 pm

Dale said he had a pet hate of people referring to Williamstown as "our seconds". He did not in anyway infer Collingwood people should stop coming to see Williamstown play. He did not even infer that they should not be wearing the black and white at Williamstown games. He just does not like other people inferring that Williamstown has been swallowed up by Collingwood, because our relationship is an alliance, not a merger or takeover.

Anyway enough of semantics.

Blanch · Post by **Blanch** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 3:10 pm

Anyone can see that the collingwood players who don't make the first 22 get to play in a team called williamstown. I won't barrack for Willy, I'll barrack for the Collingwood players who can't make our first 22. They are 2 separate clubs and if the 2 are not to be viewed as one then I'm not going to support Willy. That's a bit silly isn't it?

How many interstate supporters followed Willy before this year? Not many I'll bet. Their affiliation with our club makes us follow them. I'll argue the point with anyone that they do have their own identity but they are also our seconds. Williamstown can say what they like, but when you can't make the first 22 you play in the seconds. Did Cam Cloke play for Willy or Collingwood this year? I believe he's on our list, not Willy's. He played in the Collingwood 2nd's team this year and because of our affiliation with a club called Williamstown, that's where he played.

Willy may have their own identity, but they represent a portion of the Collingwood football club by virtue of our players playing for them.

Post by **David** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:17 pm

About Williamstown, you've gotta say in most regards it is Collingwood's reserves side! The Collingwood reserves side used to contain listed players who didn't make the 22, and some other players... same as Williamstown. I've come to the conclusion in recent months that whoever thought up the idea to merge reserves with VFA was on LSD, coz they totally destroyed the VFA competition, I bet in a couple of years the VFL will be dissolved and renamed the AFL reserves, Williamstown will change its name to Collingwood 2nds and wear Black and White and so forth.

Broadie · Post by **Broadie** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:19 pm

As an historian, I hope you're completely wrong on that one.

Dale61 · Post by **Dale61** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:22 pm

Blanch wrote:

Did Cam Cloke play for Willy or Collingwood this year? I believe he's on our list, not Willy's. He played in the Collingwood 2nd's team this year and because of our affiliation with a club called Williamstown, that's where he played.

Therefore, if Cam, being on the Collingwood list, played for 'the Collingwood 2nd's team', does that mean all Williamstown listed players had no right to play?

To answer your question, he played for Williamstown, as did Bo Nixon, Luke Shackleton, Mark Richardson, Glenn Freeborn, Luke Mullins, Guy Richards, etc,.

Blanch · Post by **Blanch** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 5:05 pm

No Dale, the Willy boys had every right to play. It is Williamstown after all. My point was that Collingwood has a starting 22. Those who don't make the starting 22 play in the 2nd's (in the eyes of most). I was just saying you can't separate Willy from Collingwood's 2nd string players. The flip side to the argument is if Willy has its own identity then does that mean all Collingwood's players had no right to play?

Willy agreed to be entwined with Collingwood. They endorsed the partnership, and in doing so they can't claim exclusiveness because they use some of Collingwoods resources, namely the players. Likewise, our 2nd string players use Willy's resources, namely their club name, jumper and teammates.

Williamstown may very well have their own identity, I'm not disputing they have things setup in their own right. What I am disputing is that Williamstown are not Collingwood's 2nd's. When you get dropped from Collingwood you play at Willy. They are there own club with their own identity (I BELIEVE YOU), they are also Collingwoods 2nd's - they signed that agreement.

Dale61 · Post by **Dale61** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 5:10 pm

David from Canberra wrote:

I've come to the conclusion in recent months that whoever thought up the idea to merge reserves with VFA was on LSD, coz they totally destroyed the VFA competition,

Mate, I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but the 2003 VFL comp was the strongest it's been for years.

You also wrote:

I bet in a couple of years the VFL will be dissolved and renamed the AFL reserves, Williamstown will change its name to Collingwood 2nds and wear Black and White and so forth.

It is due to the AFL clubs support that the VFL is still going as well as it is. The many alliances with AFL/VFL clubs have created greater interest, and crowd numbers have been the best for years. In fact, the crowd for the Williamstown / Port Melbourne prelim was the biggest non-Grand Final crowd for many years.

To have the AFL revert back to a reserves competition, clubs would have to have a list of at least 44 players, (possibly even 50 to cover any injuries,) which would see a major increase in the salary cap, in turn forcing the 'poorer' clubs like Western Bulldogs and Kangaroos to look for a merger partner. This would reduce the number of AFL teams (some would say that's a good thing) and possibly force a lot of players to either head interstate, or turn their back on the game completely.

Williamstown went out and recruited their own list of players, but were never 100% certain who would be available from Collingwood until the final 22 had been named. At all times they had to make places available for the Collingwood listed players that missed out on 'senior' selection.

Collingwood obviously knew what was best when they initially approached Williamstown, and if this years results are anything to go by, then it has been a win-win situation for all concerned.

Pa Marmo · Post by **Pa Marmo** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:13 pm

Obviously they are not our seconds. If you look at it like that eagles and freo have 12 second sides you big nong

Post by **Donny** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:12 pm

The above posts were split from the 'Please' thread.

Blanch · Post by **Blanch** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:52 am

nuxta wrote:Obviously they are not our seconds. If you look at it like that eagles and freo have 12 second sides you big nong

Not true. Name the WAFL club affiliated with the eagles or Dockers. None of those clubs have the same agreement as Willy do with the Pies.

Trippy Pie · Post by **Trippy Pie** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:20 am

If it looks like a duck, if it smells like a duck and if it walks like a duck it is a duck.

This is an unofficial Bulletin Board - owned and run by its users. We welcome all fans of the Mighty Collingwood Football Club.

Is Willy the Collingwood reserves ?

Is Willy the Collingwood reserves ?