Memo....James Frawley
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Darkstranger
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AnthonyC
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Re: Memo....James Frawley
Seriously David, coming from you. An opinion is all the authority anyone needs to make a post about.David wrote: Never worked more than one job in your life? Sometimes you need a change of scene. I don't really see what gives you the authority to judge him.
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Member 7167
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Fancy a footballer playing for a cellar dweller wanting to join a team with proven premiership potential. Good on him. If he had what it takes to be in the Hawks top 22 and he wins a premiership good luck to him. It would be soul destroying to play your entire career in a team and never plays in a final despite having a massive personal upside as a player
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SwansWay
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I understand the reasoning behind such sentiments. It does feel that these days more than ever before that a player can almost nominate for a premiership a year in advance. It's much different to Frawley wanting to go to a club that is pushing towards finals success and being part of the development. It was a ready-made success and no thanks to him. You can't blame him but for players like Lake I guess it feels unusual that you leave your original club and win three flags in a row in as many years. I think the WB wanted to offload Lake anyway and Hale was out of favour at NM. Gibson would be the other mercenary after all the patience NM showed him during his extended injury woes. Gibson would have to be the luckiest triple premiership player in history. A player that has enough support to keep him in the best 22. I'm not a fan of him as a player. McEvoy was the Saints choice too, so there's nothing wrong there.
But we must commend them (as much as we despise them) for being an amazing side that always gets the job done notwithstanding all the blind eyes the umpires give them when they flagrantly infringe 48 times a game. I guess if you infringe enough, they figure the umps won't be able to pay that many free kicks per game lest it ruins the aesthetics for television. Anyway, well done Hawks. West Coast choked worse than I've ever seen. Inexcusable really.
I'm very happy for Schoenmakers. I believe I was laughed at on this forum for suggesting the idea that Collingwood should recruit him (when he was in and out of the side earlier in the year). Guess now he'll be staying and I was thoroughly impressed by his finals games. I can't believe fellow Pies supporters scoffed at the idea.
But we must commend them (as much as we despise them) for being an amazing side that always gets the job done notwithstanding all the blind eyes the umpires give them when they flagrantly infringe 48 times a game. I guess if you infringe enough, they figure the umps won't be able to pay that many free kicks per game lest it ruins the aesthetics for television. Anyway, well done Hawks. West Coast choked worse than I've ever seen. Inexcusable really.
I'm very happy for Schoenmakers. I believe I was laughed at on this forum for suggesting the idea that Collingwood should recruit him (when he was in and out of the side earlier in the year). Guess now he'll be staying and I was thoroughly impressed by his finals games. I can't believe fellow Pies supporters scoffed at the idea.
Last edited by SwansWay on Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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gobbles21
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Re: Memo....James Frawley
So, if Collingwood win the next two premierships you will be calling anyone we recruit after this a fraud?88MPH wrote:You might have a premiership medallion hanging around your neck but you have zero respect among the majority of the die hard, love-your-club-at-all-costs football-going public.
Using free agency to make your way into a club that had won the past 2 premierships gains you nothing but the dishonourable status as a vacuous mercenary.
Make no mistake, you'll be the one they make fun of at the premiership reunions you fraud...
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David
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Re: Memo....James Frawley
I don't recall ever having condemned or flung abuse at someone else for trying to find a more successful workplace. Correct me if I'm wrong.AnthonyC wrote:Seriously David, coming from you. An opinion is all the authority anyone needs to make a post about.David wrote: Never worked more than one job in your life? Sometimes you need a change of scene. I don't really see what gives you the authority to judge him.
I've said this before about Thomas and others, and I'll say it again: in an ideal world, players would be completely loyal to their clubs and stay in the same colours for their entire career. But this is a competition in which players are treated like cattle, shopped around at the first indication that there might be something better on the table, and delisted the minute their form starts to drop off. Clubs, by and large, take players on a year-by-year (or contract-by-contract) basis. You cannot possibly expect players to take the higher moral ground, not when it's their careers at stake. Loyalty isn't a one-way street.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
That's sort of correct, viewed as an employment-law matter. But the day I start being interested in the employment-law aspects of AFL is the day I'll give away following the game.
In any event, some of these guys make almost as much as I do in a year, so I'm not sure that they need the usual sympathy we all have for workers who do difficult jobs in unfair circumstances. The position really is that they get an unusual opportunity to make what is to most people a fortune very early in their lives. If they don't, then they get on and do something else. Just like the rest of us who aren't millionaires by the time we're 25.
I don't have any particular problem with Frawley leaving Melbourne (except, perhaps, that he didn't come to Collingwood). However, if one just accepts that it is OK for players to move clubs whenever they feel like it, what is it that we actually barrack for? I follow Collingwood as a matter akin to religious observance. It is in my blood and I can't remember a time when anything mattered more to me more consistently than Collingwood kicking a football (straight). It is a matter of life and death. It isn't entertainment and seeing a clown like Freeman want out after we have worried and fretted about whether he can get his body right and do what he was selected to do makes me ill.
In any event, some of these guys make almost as much as I do in a year, so I'm not sure that they need the usual sympathy we all have for workers who do difficult jobs in unfair circumstances. The position really is that they get an unusual opportunity to make what is to most people a fortune very early in their lives. If they don't, then they get on and do something else. Just like the rest of us who aren't millionaires by the time we're 25.
I don't have any particular problem with Frawley leaving Melbourne (except, perhaps, that he didn't come to Collingwood). However, if one just accepts that it is OK for players to move clubs whenever they feel like it, what is it that we actually barrack for? I follow Collingwood as a matter akin to religious observance. It is in my blood and I can't remember a time when anything mattered more to me more consistently than Collingwood kicking a football (straight). It is a matter of life and death. It isn't entertainment and seeing a clown like Freeman want out after we have worried and fretted about whether he can get his body right and do what he was selected to do makes me ill.
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David
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^ But surely no less disappointing than a player like Brayden Shaw getting cut after two years because he couldn't make the grade. It's just the way it goes.
Being a football club supporter is one of those magnificent irrationalities in life. Are we supporting specific players? No, because we were just as passionate about 44 completely different individuals 15 years ago. Is it the suburb? No, at least not nowadays. Is it the jumper; the random pattern of colours on the guernsey? Do we really really have an affinity for vertical striped monochrome design? No, it's none of those things. So to ask what it is that we barrack for, your guess is as good as mine - but either way, I don't think it'll be substantially affected by a couple of players walking out for a more successful gig.
People bring up players' wages all the time as a justification for disparaging their behaviour. As someone who earns a small fraction of what even the most marginal AFL footballer gets, I can't understand that view. This is their careers, and while I think they get paid way too much (as do lawyers), I do not see why they ought to make sacrifices, or be judged more harshly by society, or whatever. It seems akin to arguing that they should have their little toe cut off simply for daring to be so wealthy. There's no good reason to deny them the same basic workplace conditions and flexibility that we would expect, other than some kind of perverse desire to see them endure penance for having the luck and skill to do something most of us can only dream of. I think that's what's motivating this thread, really: jealousy and a desire to punish.
Being a football club supporter is one of those magnificent irrationalities in life. Are we supporting specific players? No, because we were just as passionate about 44 completely different individuals 15 years ago. Is it the suburb? No, at least not nowadays. Is it the jumper; the random pattern of colours on the guernsey? Do we really really have an affinity for vertical striped monochrome design? No, it's none of those things. So to ask what it is that we barrack for, your guess is as good as mine - but either way, I don't think it'll be substantially affected by a couple of players walking out for a more successful gig.
People bring up players' wages all the time as a justification for disparaging their behaviour. As someone who earns a small fraction of what even the most marginal AFL footballer gets, I can't understand that view. This is their careers, and while I think they get paid way too much (as do lawyers), I do not see why they ought to make sacrifices, or be judged more harshly by society, or whatever. It seems akin to arguing that they should have their little toe cut off simply for daring to be so wealthy. There's no good reason to deny them the same basic workplace conditions and flexibility that we would expect, other than some kind of perverse desire to see them endure penance for having the luck and skill to do something most of us can only dream of. I think that's what's motivating this thread, really: jealousy and a desire to punish.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
I have no idea why anyone would bag Frawley, as I said. I'm more concerned about the suggestion that it's just "OK" for players to go (from Collingwood) because it's their workplace. As I said, that's OK as a matter of employment law but to the extent that it doesn't help Collingwood win premierships, I'm against it.
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AnthonyC
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Re: Memo....James Frawley
I never stated that you had, merely that the OP had 'authority' purely as they are entitled to their opinion.David wrote: I don't recall ever having condemned or flung abuse at someone else for trying to find a more successful workplace. Correct me if I'm wrong.
As I'm reasonably sure you have stated before.
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