Round 4 - Essendon vs Collingwood at Windy Hill

[Duff Soviet Union]

What? Do you seriously think Brown isn't better than either of those two? yourself.

Buckley thinks Keeffe and Frost are better than brown.

No, he doesn't. Brown is just being eased back. He is the first player pencilled in on the backline when he's right to go.

Correct.

[jessfootball]

What? Do you seriously think Brown isn't better than either of those two? yourself.

Buckley thinks Keeffe and Frost are better than brown.

No, he doesn't. Brown is just being eased back. He is the first player pencilled in on the backline when he's right to go.

I don't want to argue but you don't know what Buckley thinks!
Buckley always says "possession is nine tenths" and Keeffe and Frost improve every week.

[jackcass]

What? Do you seriously think Brown isn't better than either of those two? yourself.

Buckley thinks Keeffe and Frost are better than brown.

No, he doesn't. Brown is just being eased back. He is the first player pencilled in on the backline when he's right to go.

Exactly, only out of the senior side because he dislocated his shoulder. Always a risk that the form of an injury replacement (Keeffe in this case) may make it tough to get back but can't see Brown missing too many.

[jackcass]

Buckley thinks Keeffe and Frost are better than brown.

No, he doesn't. Brown is just being eased back. He is the first player pencilled in on the backline when he's right to go.

I don't want to argue but you don't know what Buckley thinks!
Buckley always says "possession is nine tenths" and Keeffe and Frost improve every week.

Oh the irony!

[jessfootball]

No, he doesn't. Brown is just being eased back. He is the first player pencilled in on the backline when he's right to go.

I don't want to argue but you don't know what Buckley thinks!
Buckley always says "possession is nine tenths" and Keeffe and Frost improve every week.

Oh the irony!

irony Buckley praises Keeffe and Frost after every match! How can you drop them?

[John Wren]

What? Do you seriously think Brown isn't better than either of those two? yourself.

Buckley thinks Keeffe and Frost are better than brown.

No, he doesn't. Brown is just being eased back. He is the first player pencilled in on the backline when he's right to go.

we'll find out this week. brown has had two games back. got through unscathed and should be right to be picked.

[roar]

Brown wouldn't have played in the vfl this week if he was considered absolute first choice. Betcha Reid doesn't play 2 games in the twos.

[jackcass]

irony Buckley praises Keeffe and Frost after every match! How can you drop them?

Point missed.... I've heard quite a few of Buckley's post match interviews and as I recall he's praised an inexperienced defense for holding up despite the injuries. Can't say I can recall him singling anyone out other than Langdon.

We have 4 potential KP defenders, Reid, Brown, Frost, and Keeffe. They all offer something different and have various strengths or weaknesses. To state as fact that any 1 is better than the other is fanciful. Clearly, the incumbents have the front running at holding their places in the side while they maintain their form or possible match ups dictate a different need such as a 3rd KPD (ie: WCEs game possibly) or someone to combat a gorilla forward which I don't think is a strength of Keeffe or Frost at this time in their development.

[jessfootball]

irony Buckley praises Keeffe and Frost after every match! How can you drop them?

Point missed.... I've heard quite a few of Buckley's post match interviews and as I recall he's praised an inexperienced defense for holding up despite the injuries. Can't say I can recall him singling anyone out other than Langdon.

Buckley praises Keeffe and Frost.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/20 ... pendlebury

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/20 ... e-big-guns

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/c ... 6890001014

[mattys123]

Full match replay on Iview now;

http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/footba ... 00#playing

[Dave The Man]

Full match replay on Iview now;

http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/footba ... 00#playing

Thanks Mate.

I downloaded the Torrent of it

[jackcass]

irony Buckley praises Keeffe and Frost after every match! How can you drop them?

Point missed.... I've heard quite a few of Buckley's post match interviews and as I recall he's praised an inexperienced defense for holding up despite the injuries. Can't say I can recall him singling anyone out other than Langdon.

Buckley praises Keeffe and Frost.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/20 ... pendlebury

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/20 ... e-big-guns

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/c ... 6890001014

Praising a player doesn't equate to that player being "better" than another and to use these examples to underpin an argument that Brown with around 100 games and one of the best performed KPDs in the league in 2013 won't get back into the side is naive in the extreme and disrespectful to one of our key players.

[MagpieBat]

Okay, so, you know how I messed up by composing my thoughts on the VFL side and forgetting to post them last week?

Well, turns out I made the same mistake this week as well!

So, feel free to give me a metaphorical head-slap, before you read on...

2. Sam Dwyer
Felt Sammy was more restrained in his performance this week. Got worried out of a couple of contests. Kicking is still a beauty to watch when on song. Wouldn't object to him coming back into the seniors (he's best 22 for mine), particularly with Fasolo in doubt. We could always roll Lumumba or Young (if he's right to play) to half back to cover for Fas.

7. Ben Kennedy
Dissapointed in young Kennedy. Don't think he had the best of games. Racked up a fair bit of it, but disposal wasn't the best. Selectors vindicated by opting to overlook him so far. Will want to bounce back next week.

9. Martin Clarke
Did reasonably well, which is pretty much his standard at this level. He's handy depth, but unless he seriously turns things around by the end of the year, it's just a matter of counting down the days until delistment time.

13. Taylor Adams
Our 2nd best afield. His nickname is 'Bull' for his contested work, and it was on full display again. Loved his hardness and toughness in the clenches. His multiple efforts without the ball were outstanding. Also took a couple of nice marks. I'd have him back for Carlton, but again, who goes out for him?

16. Nathan Brown
For a premiership defender and a presumptive best 22 player, I have to say I was disappointed in Nate. Allowed his opponents that extra first step or two of separation. Not something you want to see from such an experienced key defender. Probably wouldn't pick him on his current form line, but the Scum have the 3 key forwards in Casboult, Henderson and Waite. May be selected through necessity.

21. Quentin Lynch
Was pretty good up until he cracked his leg. Really sad to see him go down like this, as I still felt (feel) he could work as a 3rd forward/2nd ruck in the seniors. But if he has broken his leg, then it is imperative that Q be put on the Long Term Injury list so as to allow Martin to be upgraded.

25. Ben Hudson
I could seriously just cut and paste every review of Hudson from previous games into this one. He was great, especially late in the game, having to battle on with no respite from Lynch and with the bench down to 1 rotation by the last quarter. We need one more week from him, then he can take a well-earned breather come the bye.

26. Marley Williams
How good is it to have this bloke back? Spent the first quarter held back on the bench, as is the usual way of easing blokes back in these days. Came on after quarter time and was quiet for a while. Had the job on Jetta and kept him clamped (which, given it was Leroy Jetta, is probably not that much of an achievement, but you can only beat who you can beat). Came to the fore in the final term when we were running out of legs, offering us good run from defence and through the middle a few times.

Copped the knock to the ankle, but the sounds coming out of the club suggests that he's actually okay to play this week. Given Carlton's dangerous small forwards, the temptation to pick Marley this week would be hard to resist. The question is, does he have the mileage in his legs to run the game out? With a bye straight after this round, they might just roll the dice...

27. Tony Armstrong
Another case of cut and paste from week to week. Only decent thing he did was a lace-out pass to a leading Gault. Useless.

29. Timothy Broomhead
Another case of first came back from a long layoff for Broomhead, and it showed. Managed to do a few good things, particularly in the last stanza when by all rights he should have been running on empty. Actually spent a fair bit of the game in defence. Personally, I love the move. Has all the attributes to play a similar role to what Fasolo is playing at the moment.

Again, it's just a matter of stringing games together and getting a clear run at it. Massive fan of this kid.

31. Jackson Ramsay
Another solid game from Gordon. Still doesn't have the offensive side of his game worked out yet, so if ever played in the seniors this year, would really be playing as a negator, which we're relatively good for at the moment (injuries aside). I doubt we'll see him in the seniors this year.

I like his aggression and desire to stand up for his teammates when something is on. Noticed he gave a way a few frees for forceful contact below the knees. Not necessarily a bad thing, because you want your players going for their own ball, but he'll just need to be a little more mindful of the rule in future.

As an aside, it's easy to forget, but he's almost a 'bottom-ager' from his draft year, so he's actually got a bit more development to go through than others in his draft class.

33. Patrick Karnezis
Second game a Pie, second impressive outing. Returned the 4 goals and helped give our forward line that extra avenue through which to score. Admittedly, a couple were cheapies, but he positions himself very well to get the Joe-the-Goose, so marks for footy smarts.

Was released higher up the ground in the final term and, for mine, actually looked pretty good playing further away from goal. Perhaps this shouldn't come as a surprise; after all, the club HAS said that it sees Karnezis becoming a midfielder eventually. Predictions of a surprise debut in the seniors in the coming weeks are perhaps premature. Goldsack has that spot and, on current form, is a lock for it.

37. Kyle Martin
Oh, f-cken HELL YEAH, baby! 6 goals, 8 marks, 27 possessions (NOTE: The club and VFL websites are actually now saying 30 possies!). The exact same possession and goal count as he amassed in the same game last year. He just LOVES playing the Bombers reserves, does our Kyle! What more can you say?

Actually, I will say little bit more.

I know we've suddenly become a gang of two-way runners again at Collingwood, but of all the things to hang Martin on, defensive pressure (or lack of it) is way overstated in the case for overlooking him. Yes, he needs to improve on that area, but he is actually not that bad!

Now that Lynch looks like missing a hefty chunk of time, Martin simply MUST be elevated in his place. It was already an injustice leaving him to rot on the rookie list in favour Armstrong. That injustice would be magnified by leaving a player in scintillating form to languish on the rookie list, when the club has been preaching about hard work and form being rewarded.

No excuses, Collingwood FC. Kyle Martin must be elevated NOW!

No excuses!

38. Peter Yagmoor
Another so-so game from Yags. Had the job on Mellington, who I felt won the matchup, with Mellington's inaccuracy on the scoreboard perhaps blunting the damage.

Fellow poster innocent_criminal commented during the match that "I reckon this is the best defensive game I have seen from Yaggs". Having watched Yagmoor over the pre-season and in the season proper so far, I wouldn't be as generous. For mine, his defensive game has improved, but still isn't really AFL-standard. Still gives up too much space on his man and is prone to ball-watching. Tends to flit in and out of games still as well and that kind of inconsistency just hurts, when we know what an offensive weapon Yagmoor's kicking can be out of the back half.

I used the phrase last week, but he just seems to be treading water. If he can keep up this form, perhaps eek out some more improvement over the course of the year, then by all means, offer him another year as a rookie (you can rookie list players for a maximum of 3 years. Yagmoor is in his 2nd year).

40. Paul Seedsman
First game back, and it showed. Looked to be blowing a gale there at certain stages. His deadly right boot also looked rusty. Needs a few more weeks at this level, which is going to be awkward, given we have a bye after this week and a week off for state rep footy at the end of next month.

He's going to want to turn in some better performances than this one, because right now Langdon is doing enough to hold that spot. Fasolo is a lock for the back half and Williams is a walk up start for the 22. Has some hefty competition ahead of him.

44. Corey Gault
Started off well enough, with a goal. Actually presented reasonably well in the limited gametime he had. I don't really rate him, but the least he deserves is an uninterrupted run at things to make his case. Now he has a snapped collarbone and his future looks bleak.

Not that I rate him, but with Gault and now Lynch out, our forward structure in the VFL is shot to heck. Throw in the departures of Paine and Boland, and the injuries to Orval, and we are short for key forwards in the reserves. Expect Allan and Howe to return next week.

46. Jonathon Marsh
Spent the whole game in defence holding down a key post, following on from the second half last week against Coburg. Was matched up on Kefford and accounted for himself well. Also spent a bit of time on Tayte Pears when he was switched into attack. Kicking was atrocious at times coming out of defence, sometimes just blindly bombing away, other times just spraying it completely.

I'll be watching this whole Marsh in defence thing a bit closer in the coming weeks. We're already well-stocked for KPDs, but I can't help but wonder if Marsh is the prototype for the next generation of centre-half back to play on the Franklins or Camerons of this world...

48. Caolan Mooney
Bit of a 'meh' game from the Lightning Irishman, to be honest. Played again in defence and did one or two nice things, but other than that, a non-event. Best bit of play was early in the final term, where he did well to spot Kennedy in space and fire a sweeping handpass out to him, resulting in a goal to Kennedy.

From our VFL players (only the 5 of them this week...

- Moloney the clear stand out. 3 goals and plenty of the pill. Wouldn't say no to giving him a rookie spot, but I think we have our inside grunt stakes covered.

- Couch is a ball magnet and bona fide gun. Too good for this level and deserves a 2nd shot at the AFL.

- Ferguson just keeps bobbing up at the right times in the right places to get something going.

- Hellier dependable as always. Thought he was a bit quieter this week, but did his job in the middle again.

[think better]

Okay, so, you know how I messed up by composing my thoughts on the VFL side and forgetting to post them last week?

Well, turns out I made the same mistake this week as well!

So, feel free to give me a metaphorical head-slap, before you read on...

2. Sam Dwyer
Felt Sammy was more restrained in his performance this week. Got worried out of a couple of contests. Kicking is still a beauty to watch when on song. Wouldn't object to him coming back into the seniors (he's best 22 for mine), particularly with Fasolo in doubt. We could always roll Lumumba or Young (if he's right to play) to half back to cover for Fas.

7. Ben Kennedy
Dissapointed in young Kennedy. Don't think he had the best of games. Racked up a fair bit of it, but disposal wasn't the best. Selectors vindicated by opting to overlook him so far. Will want to bounce back next week.

9. Martin Clarke
Did reasonably well, which is pretty much his standard at this level. He's handy depth, but unless he seriously turns things around by the end of the year, it's just a matter of counting down the days until delistment time.

13. Taylor Adams
Our 2nd best afield. His nickname is 'Bull' for his contested work, and it was on full display again. Loved his hardness and toughness in the clenches. His multiple efforts without the ball were outstanding. Also took a couple of nice marks. I'd have him back for Carlton, but again, who goes out for him?

16. Nathan Brown
For a premiership defender and a presumptive best 22 player, I have to say I was disappointed in Nate. Allowed his opponents that extra first step or two of separation. Not something you want to see from such an experienced key defender. Probably wouldn't pick him on his current form line, but the Scum have the 3 key forwards in Casboult, Henderson and Waite. May be selected through necessity.

21. Quentin Lynch
Was pretty good up until he cracked his leg. Really sad to see him go down like this, as I still felt (feel) he could work as a 3rd forward/2nd ruck in the seniors. But if he has broken his leg, then it is imperative that Q be put on the Long Term Injury list so as to allow Martin to be upgraded.

25. Ben Hudson
I could seriously just cut and paste every review of Hudson from previous games into this one. He was great, especially late in the game, having to battle on with no respite from Lynch and with the bench down to 1 rotation by the last quarter. We need one more week from him, then he can take a well-earned breather come the bye.

26. Marley Williams
How good is it to have this bloke back? Spent the first quarter held back on the bench, as is the usual way of easing blokes back in these days. Came on after quarter time and was quiet for a while. Had the job on Jetta and kept him clamped (which, given it was Leroy Jetta, is probably not that much of an achievement, but you can only beat who you can beat). Came to the fore in the final term when we were running out of legs, offering us good run from defence and through the middle a few times.

Copped the knock to the ankle, but the sounds coming out of the club suggests that he's actually okay to play this week. Given Carlton's dangerous small forwards, the temptation to pick Marley this week would be hard to resist. The question is, does he have the mileage in his legs to run the game out? With a bye straight after this round, they might just roll the dice...

27. Tony Armstrong
Another case of cut and paste from week to week. Only decent thing he did was a lace-out pass to a leading Gault. Useless.

29. Timothy Broomhead
Another case of first came back from a long layoff for Broomhead, and it showed. Managed to do a few good things, particularly in the last stanza when by all rights he should have been running on empty. Actually spent a fair bit of the game in defence. Personally, I love the move. Has all the attributes to play a similar role to what Fasolo is playing at the moment.

Again, it's just a matter of stringing games together and getting a clear run at it. Massive fan of this kid.

31. Jackson Ramsay
Another solid game from Gordon. Still doesn't have the offensive side of his game worked out yet, so if ever played in the seniors this year, would really be playing as a negator, which we're relatively good for at the moment (injuries aside). I doubt we'll see him in the seniors this year.

I like his aggression and desire to stand up for his teammates when something is on. Noticed he gave a way a few frees for forceful contact below the knees. Not necessarily a bad thing, because you want your players going for their own ball, but he'll just need to be a little more mindful of the rule in future.

As an aside, it's easy to forget, but he's almost a 'bottom-ager' from his draft year, so he's actually got a bit more development to go through than others in his draft class.

33. Patrick Karnezis
Second game a Pie, second impressive outing. Returned the 4 goals and helped give our forward line that extra avenue through which to score. Admittedly, a couple were cheapies, but he positions himself very well to get the Joe-the-Goose, so marks for footy smarts.

Was released higher up the ground in the final term and, for mine, actually looked pretty good playing further away from goal. Perhaps this shouldn't come as a surprise; after all, the club HAS said that it sees Karnezis becoming a midfielder eventually. Predictions of a surprise debut in the seniors in the coming weeks are perhaps premature. Goldsack has that spot and, on current form, is a lock for it.

37. Kyle Martin
Oh, f-cken HELL YEAH, baby! 6 goals, 8 marks, 27 possessions (NOTE: The club and VFL websites are actually now saying 30 possies!). The exact same possession and goal count as he amassed in the same game last year. He just LOVES playing the Bombers reserves, does our Kyle! What more can you say?

Actually, I will say little bit more.

I know we've suddenly become a gang of two-way runners again at Collingwood, but of all the things to hang Martin on, defensive pressure (or lack of it) is way overstated in the case for overlooking him. Yes, he needs to improve on that area, but he is actually not that bad!

Now that Lynch looks like missing a hefty chunk of time, Martin simply MUST be elevated in his place. It was already an injustice leaving him to rot on the rookie list in favour Armstrong. That injustice would be magnified by leaving a player in scintillating form to languish on the rookie list, when the club has been preaching about hard work and form being rewarded.

No excuses, Collingwood FC. Kyle Martin must be elevated NOW!

No excuses!

38. Peter Yagmoor
Another so-so game from Yags. Had the job on Mellington, who I felt won the matchup, with Mellington's inaccuracy on the scoreboard perhaps blunting the damage.

Fellow poster innocent_criminal commented during the match that "I reckon this is the best defensive game I have seen from Yaggs". Having watched Yagmoor over the pre-season and in the season proper so far, I wouldn't be as generous. For mine, his defensive game has improved, but still isn't really AFL-standard. Still gives up too much space on his man and is prone to ball-watching. Tends to flit in and out of games still as well and that kind of inconsistency just hurts, when we know what an offensive weapon Yagmoor's kicking can be out of the back half.

I used the phrase last week, but he just seems to be treading water. If he can keep up this form, perhaps eek out some more improvement over the course of the year, then by all means, offer him another year as a rookie (you can rookie list players for a maximum of 3 years. Yagmoor is in his 2nd year).

40. Paul Seedsman
First game back, and it showed. Looked to be blowing a gale there at certain stages. His deadly right boot also looked rusty. Needs a few more weeks at this level, which is going to be awkward, given we have a bye after this week and a week off for state rep footy at the end of next month.

He's going to want to turn in some better performances than this one, because right now Langdon is doing enough to hold that spot. Fasolo is a lock for the back half and Williams is a walk up start for the 22. Has some hefty competition ahead of him.

44. Corey Gault
Started off well enough, with a goal. Actually presented reasonably well in the limited gametime he had. I don't really rate him, but the least he deserves is an uninterrupted run at things to make his case. Now he has a snapped collarbone and his future looks bleak.

Not that I rate him, but with Gault and now Lynch out, our forward structure in the VFL is shot to heck. Throw in the departures of Paine and Boland, and the injuries to Orval, and we are short for key forwards in the reserves. Expect Allan and Howe to return next week.

46. Jonathon Marsh
Spent the whole game in defence holding down a key post, following on from the second half last week against Coburg. Was matched up on Kefford and accounted for himself well. Also spent a bit of time on Tayte Pears when he was switched into attack. Kicking was atrocious at times coming out of defence, sometimes just blindly bombing away, other times just spraying it completely.

I'll be watching this whole Marsh in defence thing a bit closer in the coming weeks. We're already well-stocked for KPDs, but I can't help but wonder if Marsh is the prototype for the next generation of centre-half back to play on the Franklins or Camerons of this world...

48. Caolan Mooney
Bit of a 'meh' game from the Lightning Irishman, to be honest. Played again in defence and did one or two nice things, but other than that, a non-event. Best bit of play was early in the final term, where he did well to spot Kennedy in space and fire a sweeping handpass out to him, resulting in a goal to Kennedy.

From our VFL players (only the 5 of them this week...

- Moloney the clear stand out. 3 goals and plenty of the pill. Wouldn't say no to giving him a rookie spot, but I think we have our inside grunt stakes covered.

- Couch is a ball magnet and bona fide gun. Too good for this level and deserves a 2nd shot at the AFL.

- Ferguson just keeps bobbing up at the right times in the right places to get something going.

- Hellier dependable as always. Thought he was a bit quieter this week, but did his job in the middle again.

thanks MB - excited by K Mart's prospects

[Rick]

Broomhead reminds me of Sidebottom, they both seem to bob up at the right time in similar positions on the ground and dispose the ball in the same fashion, 30-45m but fall 5m short of the mark.

It was the first I have seen of Marsh and he's much bigger than I expected. Has a bit of see ball, get ball, bomb ball. I suppose playing in the back line is all about professional development at this stage. Wouldn't be surprised if he was thrown forward now that Lynch and Gault have gone down.

I'm a huge wrap for Kyle Martin, since his Noble Park and Dolphin days. I suppose theres a case that he may not display the "pressure acts" one may need, but he can find space and is a great finisher. He caps off other players "pressure acts". I guess what I'm saying is you need players that complement Goldsack and Blair to cap off their tackling and harassing, you need creative player who can find space and kick goals. Kyle Martin is that player.