Round 17 - Collingwood vs Box Hill at Victoria Park

[MagpieBat]

Siren.

FULL TIME.

Collingwood 4.13.37
Box Hill 23.15.153

Goals - Paine 2, Ugle, Wallace

[Collingwood Crackerjack]

Does not bode well....how was Dids

[think better]

Very ugly scoreboard!

[MagpieBat]

Does not bode well....how was Dids

Quiet, but uninjured.

That's really all that counts...

[Dave The Man]

We were Bloody Pathetic

[woftam]

How can we expect to groom young players to play senior footy when they get pumped by 100 points every week. I thought our plan after last year was to strengthen the VFL list. Seems it's weaker than ever if results are taken into account.

[Big T]

That's a bloody shamozzle. The VFL team has been nothing short of a disaster this year. I really hope we have the depth that a lot of people talk about, but you have to question is the VFL teams ineptness really because we are not focusing on winning, rather developing AFL players, or are we just very average after #25 on the list? I still believe we are in no advantage from 26-40, I have said this all year and today only strengthens the need to recruit depth players which we are sadly missing.

[MagpieBat]

That's a bloody shamozzle. The VFL team has been nothing short of a disaster this year. I really hope we have the depth that a lot of people talk about, but you have to question is the VFL teams ineptness really because we are not focusing on winning, rather developing AFL players, or are we just very average after #25 on the list? I still believe we are in no advantage from 26-40, I have said this all year and today only strengthens the need to recruit depth players which we are sadly missing.

The answer is, of course, yes to both of those questions.

We started the pre-season by recruiting VFL good players and setting our sights (publicly, at least) on winning enough games in order to make it to the finals. At some point, however, we fell back into the same old mindset of "screw winning, just develop".

Injuries certainly have played their part (Krakouer, Macaffer, Ball, Keeffe all stuffing their knees, thereby seeing their replacements being promoted to the seniors and effectively lost to the VFL). Also, lower-tier depth players such as Rounds have spent time in the casualty ward, to say nothing of the injuries to Tarrant, Didak and Johnson.

Tarrant, Didak, Johnson, Krakouer, Macaffer, Ball, Keeffe, Rounds.

That's 8 players who have spent large chunks of the season in rehab. 7 of those 8 players all have a claim to best 22 status, which would see kids such as Sinclair, Paine, Seedsman, Mooney and Young all back toiling away in the VFL. Throw in Buckley and Clarke, and the VFL team starts looking a bit stronger on paper. Add a couple of our leading VFL guys such as Eddy (knee reco) and Sundberg (missed 1st half of the year with a shoulder), and we have a decent sort of team.

All that youth, though, cannot compensate for the dramatic loss of depth players we have seen retire/de-listed since 2010: Fraser, O'Bree, Prestigiacomo, L Brown, Davis, Lockyer, Medhurst, McCarthy, Anthony, Dick and Barham. That's a lot of experience to lose in the middle of a premiership window. If only we could have staggered those retirements a bit (what if Presti and Tarks had played on for 1 more year, for example).

Ultimatley, however, any team that plays 5 prima facie ruckmen in the one side (often without the leeway of an extra running player on the bench) is going to fall down like a house of cards. The need/desire to play all 5 rucking talls when available is killing us because most of them can only play the one position: #1 ruck.

Wood automatically gets selected in the VFL if not playing seniors, because he is the backup if Jolly blows up (but on TODAY's form, Wood would be lucky to get a game with Frankston reserves). Ceglar is the next realistic prospect for senior duties, but is not ready for a more permanent place in the seniors. Witts is a potential star ruckman, but must be managed with kid gloves if we want him to blossom into the "Sandilands/Mumford" monster we all dream of him being. Gault might be a viable "Leigh Brown" type of player, but he is still lanky and raw. And Shae Mac has hit a brick wall in his development.

5 rucks, splitting the ruck minutes and most resting up forward. Dumb, dumb, dumb! We don't play 5 rucks in the seniors, because that is not our "structure". So why do we indulge in such insanity in the twos? The answer is because we only have the one reserves team, when the other AFL teams can send some underperforming players back to the VFL Reserves if need be.

All of this, for mine, strengthens the need for a VFL Reserves side, which would allow us to split the list between those who are prospects for senior selection, and those who are learning the basics of our gameplan or are developing. For example, Wood and Ceglar could ruck in the VFL "seniors", Witts and Gault in the VFL "reserves". It would also allow for us to play more of our VFL-listed guys and get them further ingrained with our way of playing, making the difference between Collingwood VFL and Collingwood seniors more "seamless".

[Jezza]

Very disappointing. Corey Gault was once again the only formidable option in front of goal. Would he be a chance to play against GWS I wonder?

Anyway, the Collingwood reserves look about done and dusted for 2012 by the looks of it. I made a good decision to sleep in instead of heading out to Vic Park.

[Big T]

That's a bloody shamozzle. The VFL team has been nothing short of a disaster this year. I really hope we have the depth that a lot of people talk about, but you have to question is the VFL teams ineptness really because we are not focusing on winning, rather developing AFL players, or are we just very average after #25 on the list? I still believe we are in no advantage from 26-40, I have said this all year and today only strengthens the need to recruit depth players which we are sadly missing.

The answer is, of course, yes to both of those questions.

We started the pre-season by recruiting VFL good players and setting our sights (publicly, at least) on winning enough games in order to make it to the finals. At some point, however, we fell back into the same old mindset of "screw winning, just develop".

Injuries certainly have played their part (Krakouer, Macaffer, Ball, Keeffe all stuffing their knees, thereby seeing their replacements being promoted to the seniors and effectively lost to the VFL). Also, lower-tier depth players such as Rounds have spent time in the casualty ward, to say nothing of the injuries to Tarrant, Didak and Johnson.

Tarrant, Didak, Johnson, Krakouer, Macaffer, Ball, Keeffe, Rounds.

That's 8 players who have spent large chunks of the season in rehab. 7 of those 8 players all have a claim to best 22 status, which would see kids such as Sinclair, Paine, Seedsman, Mooney and Young all back toiling away in the VFL. Throw in Buckley and Clarke, and the VFL team starts looking a bit stronger on paper. Add a couple of our leading VFL guys such as Eddy (knee reco) and Sundberg (missed 1st half of the year with a shoulder), and we have a decent sort of team.

All that youth, though, cannot compensate for the dramatic loss of depth players we have seen retire/de-listed since 2010: Fraser, O'Bree, Prestigiacomo, L Brown, Davis, Lockyer, Medhurst, McCarthy, Anthony, Dick and Barham. That's a lot of experience to lose in the middle of a premiership window. If only we could have staggered those retirements a bit (what if Presti and Tarks had played on for 1 more year, for example).

Ultimatley, however, any team that plays 5 prima facie ruckmen in the one side (often without the leeway of an extra running player on the bench) is going to fall down like a house of cards. The need/desire to play all 5 rucking talls when available is killing us because most of them can only play the one position: #1 ruck.

Wood automatically gets selected in the VFL if not playing seniors, because he is the backup if Jolly blows up (but on TODAY's form, Wood would be lucky to get a game with Frankston reserves). Ceglar is the next realistic prospect for senior duties, but is not ready for a more permanent place in the seniors. Witts is a potential star ruckman, but must be managed with kid gloves if we want him to blossom into the "Sandilands/Mumford" monster we all dream of him being. Gault might be a viable "Leigh Brown" type of player, but he is still lanky and raw. And Shae Mac has hit a brick wall in his development.

5 rucks, splitting the ruck minutes and most resting up forward. Dumb, dumb, dumb! We don't play 5 rucks in the seniors, because that is not our "structure". So why do we indulge in such insanity in the twos? The answer is because we only have the one reserves team, when the other AFL teams can send some underperforming players back to the VFL Reserves if need be.

All of this, for mine, strengthens the need for a VFL Reserves side, which would allow us to split the list between those who are prospects for senior selection, and those who are learning the basics of our gameplan or are developing. For example, Wood and Ceglar could ruck in the VFL "seniors", Witts and Gault in the VFL "reserves". It would also allow for us to play more of our VFL-listed guys and get them further ingrained with our way of playing, making the difference between Collingwood VFL and Collingwood seniors more "seamless".

SO basically you are sayinv Wood is useless after being drafted as a #1 round pick, Ceglar is no closer to progressing after his second year, Shae is a total waste of our time but we liked getting our name onto the international non irish list in the Sun, Witts and Gault are our future but at least 1 year away.

Its depressing. Ruck killing us again.

[die4pies]

We played a man down today. Didak is bearly 50%. Josh Thomas on his way back. Several AFL players have confidence issues.

Seriously worrying signs from the VFL Academy though.

The big issue at AFL level now is that we are overloaded with inexperienced players who are now being asked to step up and make more than the cameo roles they have been getting away with.

The VFL team seriously lacks any structure or definable game plan as well and. Director of Coaching should be in charge of the VFL and be using the games to mentor the coaching staff as well as developing the younger players.

Tarkyn Lockyer:
32 games
7 wins
25 losses
21%

[John Wren]

Very disappointing. Corey Gault was once again the only formidable option in front of goal. Would he be a chance to play against GWS I wonder?

Anyway, the Collingwood reserves look about done and dusted for 2012 by the looks of it. I made a good decision to sleep in instead of heading out to Vic Park.

it's disappointing you think that way re your decision to sleep in. i wish more supporters took an interest in our vfl team. they are, after all, a big part of the collingwood football cub and critical to the success of the afl team.

we recruited more hardened bodies to take the heat off our afl listed recruits. it has taken them some time to adjust to the game structures, style and plan. as we expect the younger bodies are tiring badly. we miss k pendlebury terribly. that shae mac is playing down back says much of where we're at. i'd hate to think that his time in defence is part of his development. i see it as more plugging a hole.

in a sliding doors moment i wonder how the vfl would have fared if we weren't wracked with injuries in the afl? would the likes of elliott have developed any more than what he is getting now at senior level? we put keefe, sinclair, young, elliott, seedsman etc back in the vfl i think our season would be vastly different.

[Fire Up]

i don't think its the players, i reckon its the coach (tarks) that is causing us the huge losses.

if you look at most of our games we always start slow, some 2nd quaters are ok and we play our best then (which has made us win our games, as if we win 2nd qtr we win game) then come 3rd and 4th qtr if the pies are losing they just give up

in 1 game paine was having a shocking 1st half, tarks takes him off and gives him a spray on the interchange bench. then in 3rd and 4th qtr paine comes out and plays a blinder of a half. if tarks does more of that to players then we could see a different team

also isnt tarks only the coach because we made him retire with 1/2 years left on his contract

[Jezza]

Very disappointing. Corey Gault was once again the only formidable option in front of goal. Would he be a chance to play against GWS I wonder?

Anyway, the Collingwood reserves look about done and dusted for 2012 by the looks of it. I made a good decision to sleep in instead of heading out to Vic Park.

it's disappointing you think that way re your decision to sleep in. i wish more supporters took an interest in our vfl team. they are, after all, a big part of the collingwood football cub and critical to the success of the afl team.

we recruited more hardened bodies to take the heat off our afl listed recruits. it has taken them some time to adjust to the game structures, style and plan. as we expect the younger bodies are tiring badly. we miss k pendlebury terribly. that shae mac is playing down back says much of where we're at. i'd hate to think that his time in defence is part of his development. i see it as more plugging a hole.

in a sliding doors moment i wonder how the vfl would have fared if we weren't wracked with injuries in the afl? would the likes of elliott have developed any more than what he is getting now at senior level? we put keefe, sinclair, young, elliott, seedsman etc back in the vfl i think our season would be vastly different.

Don't question me on priorities. I attended the Collingwood and Geelong match last Saturday and since the game started earlier than usual I couldn't be bothered waking up in time to head down to VicPark.

MagpieBat's updates were a sufficient resource in keeping up to date with the progression of the match.

[Fire Up]

lets see if krak and caff can change the dynamics of the vfl when they return to footy in a few weeks