some thoughts on the current state of Nick's

[Pied Piper]

Lately, Nick's has reminded me of being part of the crowd in the Victoria Park outer. That might give me pause for nostalgia and affection.

Unfortunately, the mood has been ugly and coarse. Specifically, it has resembled the Victoria Park outer in July 1992, when Nicky Winmar raised his jumper to an abusive, baying mob.

This is not a time, or indeed place to which I wish to return. Our club thankfully has come a fair way since then. Sadly, some of our fans haven't similarly evolved.

I've been thinking a lot about free speech lately, and the boundaries of free speech. Unfortunately, it is true that good people are sometimes tagged with the racist label too quickly and too cheaply.

Equally unfortunately, others deny their racism when it is clearly obvious to others. These people, it seems to me, tend to scream the loudest about their right to free expression.

I know the moderators of this website are keen, and rightly so, to encourage as great a diversity of opinion as possible - within the rules of the website, of course, to which I mostly try to adhere.

Like most of us with a robust point of view, though, I'm no saint and have definitely been on the wrong side of the line at times.

Unfortunately, there are a few posters on this board who have worked out how to play mostly within the rules while at the same time pushing and prodding at the boundaries to the point that Nick's has become perverted by the conflicts they generate.

These are skilled trollers. The fact that they can play within the rules doesn't mean they aren't trolling. And in my view it's high time they were dealt with.

To see those posters use the sad situations of Andrew Krakouer and Liam Jurrah to stir up further vitriol, division and knee-jerk reactions, often with crude race-baiting, has not surprised me.

It has disappointed me, though, that the sparks have been allowed to become fires. Is that the fault of posters for responding, or the moderators? Regardless, it's lowered the entire tone of the place to a thoroughly miserable level.

It might be overly optimistic to expect reason, caution and civility on the internet, particularly on a Collingwood forum. But it's my view that Nick's has been hijacked by a minority of fools who get their jollies from, as WhyPhilWhy put it, having a competition with themselves to say the most inflammatory thing that they can.

They then routinely raise the threat of internet censorship as a way of winning sympathy for the right to hold their points of view - but really, it's about the right to continue to play their nasty little games.

That, to me, is an abuse of the responsibilities that come with free speech, and an abuse of the wider Nick's community. I think the boundaries of the forum are being taken advantage of by some clever but vicious people, who in some cases may well not even be Collingwood supporters at all.

I don't expect my views to be entirely shared by the forum, but I want to put them to the moderators for consideration, and let it be known that once again I am seriously considering my membership of this site.

I've said that before, so I don't much expect to be taken seriously - and I know full well that people, including much-valued contributors like Tannin and Joffa come and go, while Nick's goes on. No one is missed for long!

That disclaimer made, suffice to say that after nine years, I'm very saddened by the direction the board seems to be taking.

[Nick - Pie Man]

The posters in question deserve sympathy, not censure. They are young adult males with raging egos, poorly developed social skills and no sense of achievement or purpose in their lives (Classic trolls)

I think the best thing to do is not react to their nonsense but rather be proactive in showing them how real men (and women) communicate, with appropriate respect and humility.

There are a lot of older people on this forum. (It took me ages to learn that) Show these kids what discourse is all about. Lead by example.

At least then, if they remain too afraid to join in, you'll know you have done your best.

Banning them will only perpetuate the problem


I can't believe I just wrote that! Might be time to change the avatar

[Joel]

PP, I agree. But not only that, the quality of topics has dropped considerably. This is probably because of the offseason, but I fear it won't stop once the season starts.

In regards to "free speech", this does not exist on an Internet forum. People mistake their ability to have an opinion, as an ability to say what they please, do as they please, and annoy whoever they please.

[Deja Vu]

The posters in question deserve sympathy, not censure. They are young adult males with raging egos, poorly developed social skills and no sense of achievement or purpose in their lives (Classic trolls)

I think the best thing to do is not react to their nonsense but rather be proactive in showing them how real men (and women) communicate, with appropriate respect and humility.

There are a lot of older people on this forum. (It took me ages to learn that) Show these kids what discourse is all about. Lead by example.

At least then, if they remain too afraid to join in, you'll know you have done your best.

Banning them will only perpetuate the problem


I can't believe I just wrote that! Might be time to change the avatar

I can't believe you wrote that either. Plagiarism is bad OK?

[Pied Piper]

PP, I agree. But not only that, the quality of topics has dropped considerably. This is probably because of the offseason, but I fear it won't stop once the season starts.

In regards to "free speech", this does not exist on an Internet forum. People mistake their ability to have an opinion, as an ability to say what they please, do as they please, and annoy whoever they please.

The first point in "The Rules" states: "Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users. You are encouraged to voice your opinions, but please be considerate of others and treat them as you would like to be treated - plain and simple really."

I'd cite the Andrew Krakouer thread[s] as evidence that this has pretty much gone out the window.

[Joel]

That's a good point actually. I think the "rules" are somewhat ignored by some posters.

[stui magpie]

It has been a bit of a crap fest of late. Some of the people seem to have no interest in anything except shit stirring.

However, IMO the last thing we want is overzealous moderation. I like the Mods here compared to somewhere like Big Footy where they come in with the jack boots at the first hint of being off topic, let alone typing crap.

It would be nice if people could get yellow not for specific posts but for accumulated crap posting.

Otherwise, the only option is to follow the old advice, don't feed the trolls. Ignore them or spit in occasional ridicule but don't engage with them.

[Pied Piper]

"Overzealous moderation" my arse, Stui. Allowing everyone a say doesn't have to mean letting the lunatics take over the asylum.

Anyway, I've tried to direct this through the correct channels, but since it appears to have fallen on deaf ears... /

[David]

I kind of lean towards the opinions of Nick and Stui, but nevertheless I think you're doing the right thing by bringing this up. Hopefully the moderators will give it consideration.

[stui magpie]

"Overzealous moderation" my arse, Stui. Allowing everyone a say doesn't have to mean letting the lunatics take over the asylum.

Anyway, I've tried to direct this through the correct channels, but since it appears to have fallen on deaf ears... /

Who decides who the lunatics are?

TP cops a hard time but I like her and her approach, even if it can be naive at times. She means well.

maybe the balance could be shifted a little but be real careful what you wish for. Part of the charm of Nicks for me is how threads can drift off topic into all kinds of areas. Hell, I'm one of the main protagonists to drifting threads off track.

With stricter rules comes all sorts of unintended consequences.

You're a smart bloke and you don't shy away from a genuine debate, you and I have had a few and as far as I can see it's all ended well even if we disagree on a number of things.

This is a good place. Part of what makes it good is what can piss you off at times. Balance.

And remember, noli illigetimi carborundum.

[Nick - Pie Man]

The very best way to get someone to do something is to tell them that they can't. Especially if that someone is young and male.

[Pied Piper]

I think if you read the OP you know who I mean when I'm talking about trolls, Stui. It's not just one person, and it's not TP either.

I don't think it's a matter of being intolerant of others' opinions. As you say, the two of us don't agree on a whole lot outside of football but you're one of the posters I most enjoy conversing and debating with.

But being accepting of other points of view doesn't mean I necessarily want to sit in Bay 13 surrounded by a bunch of pyromaniacs with a petrol can and a box of matches.

[Nick - Pie Man]

I take it back - they are Saintsational trolls. Ban them

[stui magpie]

I think if you read the OP you know who I mean when I'm talking about trolls, Stui. It's not just one person, and it's not TP either.

I don't think it's a matter of being intolerant of others' opinions. As you say, the two of us don't agree on a whole lot outside of football but you're one of the posters I most enjoy conversing and debating with.

But being accepting of other points of view doesn't mean I necessarily want to sit in Bay 13 surrounded by a bunch of pyromaniacs with a petrol can and a box of matches.

LOL, fair call, but I hope you don't let riff raff drive you away, the joint would be poorer for your leaving. I enjoy your work and arguing with you too.

There's a number of ways to passively resist other than just tolerate fools. One is to simply choose not to respond to obvious troll attempts.

You're a smart bloke and you'll make your own decisions and work it out. I just hope it doesn't involve leaving. Once the footy starts there'll (hopefully) be plenty of decent conversation on offer.

[Nick - Pie Man]

Hey! It's time for some bloody moderation here! The trolls are giving themselves multiple accounts now!