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pietillidie
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Post by pietillidie »

OEP wrote:You must be brain dead and I dare say properly a dud root. Don't get offended I'm being light hearted and I do have the right to free speech, even if it's at your expense...right?
I think you might be confusing banter with slander.

In any case, in these lean times being called a dud root would be something to cheer! :D
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OEP
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Post by OEP »

pietillidie wrote:
OEP wrote:You must be brain dead and I dare say properly a dud root. Don't get offended I'm being light hearted and I do have the right to free speech, even if it's at your expense...right?
I think you might be confusing banter with slander.

In any case, in these lean times being called a dud root would be something to cheer! :D
No more so than you referring to people as red necks, bigots, racists and misogynists simply because they have a different point of view on a situation(s) to you.

Also it's not banter when it's insulting and made on national television. Someone makes comments like the ones made about Roberts-Smith in a public not private forum (especially when the person being insulted isn't present to defend themselves) then it stops being banter and becomes slanderous. Just because you and David don't agree with how the military are viewed by others and the wars they fight doesn't lessen or make right what these presenters chose to say. After the first comment was made they had ample time to stop, regroup and realise it wasn't appropriate (especially a seasoned journalist like Negus) yet they elected to continue.

People have the right to feel indignant on the behalf of Roberts-Smith as many have, and as many have voiced. In the same way someone may hear a insulting or inappropriate comment made about another person and tell those involved it was out of line and to pull their heads in.

Do I agree with the death threats? Absolutely not that's completely unacceptable and those making them should be prosecuted.

Do I agree with Facebook pages trying to get the show shut down or the presenters fired, or the ones aimed at getting the sponsors to retract their advertising from the show? Personally no I think it's over the top, but in saying that those creating them have done nothing wrong they're simply voicing their opinion and continuing disapproval about what happened and taken more direct action.

Mind you all this could have been easily defused if the presenters involved had simply swallowed their pride and made a humble public apology - it could've been as simple as "I would like to apologise to Cpl (get his rank right George :roll:) Roberts-Smith for my comments, they will ill considered and inappropriate. I hope I haven't offended him, or his family as that was not my intention and I hope I can move on from this and continue doing the job I love."

Very little face lost, not an apology to the public but a public apology to the man himself which also serves to soften the publics view of the presenters and what was said.

This whole thing has been very poorly managed by the show and the presenters and as a result things have escalated.

I guess the saying "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" could've saved them a lot of heartache.
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David
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Post by David »

pietillidie wrote:David, there's more than enough you can do from the middle; there's no need to mark blokes doing their jobs with the disgrace of Iraq and Afghanistan. It doesn't matter how you preface it, that will be the perception. That both wars are widely perceived as a disgrace and abject failure will hang around the necks of the right for a very long time yet; no need to go the extra mile and whack their heroes, too.

It's not about the military doing their job (as you've said); but it is about massively destructive BS wars supported by opportunistic politicians and companies playing the ignorant authoritarian mob on the right like a fiddle.

Also, give the right their symbols and icons; that sort of stuff is too ingrained in their psychology for them to give up. Target areas in which you can make progress such as the republic, which is a chance to develop new and more appropriate symbols.

The only issue of interest related to this incident is that companies have caved in to redneck pressure and chosen to support bigots, racists and misogynists rather than someone simply organising a formal apology and moving on. Why don't you spend more time hanging the support of bigotry and the mob threat to free speech and rights around the necks of the companies and the mob concerned?
That's a good point, and I probably could have reiterated the 'gutless swine' label that I applied to the (now nine!) sponsors who have ended their association with the show in the article itself. However, I feel like I'd already dealt with that issue more generally in my previous piece on offensive humour, which does have a lot of parallels with this story. Here, however, I wanted to approach the 'war hero' paradigm itself and why it's perceived to be so important.
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Post by David »

"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
pietillidie
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Post by pietillidie »

OEP wrote:
pietillidie wrote:
OEP wrote:You must be brain dead and I dare say properly a dud root. Don't get offended I'm being light hearted and I do have the right to free speech, even if it's at your expense...right?
I think you might be confusing banter with slander.

In any case, in these lean times being called a dud root would be something to cheer! :D
No more so than you referring to people as red necks, bigots, racists and misogynists simply because they have a different point of view on a situation(s) to you.
Except I was actually referring to the bigots who called Called Yumi whatever her name a $%#$ %$#^ in a daily double of racism and misogyny which unfortunately wasn't lurking too far beneath the surface, as well as the whackos trying to inflict financial and other damages on the two concerned.

I know you're not like that so I wasn't confusing you with them! But anyone who rode that wave shouldn't be surprised if they got soiled, either.

You just can't forcibly stop people saying dumb crap; that's what children do. We'd never get through listening to most full sentences if we were that vigilant. I wouldn't have said it, but if they want to be disrespectful and push buttons there's nothing we can do about it but dislike them; you can't legislate positive relationships or force people into respecting you. Not to mention the hopeless hypocrisy of the same people tolerating disrespect when it is targeted at people they don't like.

The difference between insult and something like vilification is plainly that one of the two is dangerous and damaging, while slander is also by definition damaging. There was nothing dangerous or damaging about what was said. I know respect for authority and important symbols might mean a lot to some people and I can accept that, so I make an effort to be aware of their sensitivities when dealing with them interpersonally. But people can't get everything they want just because they stamp their feet and insist it should be so, and I don't see why one wouldn't just put people on the metaphorical ignore list if they're that unbearable. Surely if you set the respect bar too high you'll be in a permanent lather chasing homage from people who are under no legal or moral obligation to submit to your whims.

One additional point on the insults. As I've stated elsewhere, I have no problem now playing spam the spammer. If someone doesn't make a decent effort to converse and they persistently troll, spam, deflect and misrepresent, they get it in return. That's not forcing someone to do anything; it's simply the age-old biologically successful game of tit-for-tat. One trap the idealist left has always fallen for is to set the bar high for themselves while their opponents play dirty and visceral. The great pragmatist PJ Keating had it right; whack the disingenuous with one hand, and create solutions with the other.

To connect that back to the OP, you don't see anyone on Nick's raising a mob to hang even the most annoying spammers. They get a fair game on the rules they set for themselves despite some sulking when they discover things are not rigged in their favour; a bit of rhetorical rough and tumble and contest is a mile off inflicting financial and other damages on people, which is heading well into the territory of abnormal and dangerous authoritarian behaviour. The companies who supported the damaging of the people concerned deserve every bit of tit-for-tat they get in return, and indeed it is required or dangerous redneck witch hunts will become a regular feature of the landscape.
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think positive
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Post by think positive »

What is Lots Wife?
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
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OEP
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Post by OEP »

think positive wrote:What is Lots Wife?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Lot's+wife
A Collingwood supporter since the egg was inseminated.
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David
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Post by David »

think positive wrote:What is Lots Wife?
It's the student newspaper of Monash University's Clayton campus. Even though I've taken a year off, I've decided to keep writing for them in order to build up my portfolio and keep writing on a regular basis.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
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mandy
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Post by mandy »

Harry Kewell doesn't like Yumi either....

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainme ... 6296839711
MOOMBA king and soccer star Harry Kewell has pulled out of an interview with The Circle over controversy surrounding host Yumi Stynes.

Lord Mayor Robert Doyle said this morning Kewell had not appeared at his scheduled interview with the beleaguered morning program because of comments Stynes made about Victoria Cross winner Corporal Ben Roberts-Smith.
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HAL
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Post by HAL »

Did Harrison ever write any Star Trek episodes?
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David
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Post by David »

My brain hurts.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
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Post by 3.14159 »

Lots Wife?

$100 for anyone that can tell me what her first name was?
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mandy
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Post by mandy »

David wrote:My brain hurts.
:lol:
#TEAMBUCKS
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Woods Of Ypres
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Post by Woods Of Ypres »

I am a bit late on this but it seems that the woman (yumi?) and Negus were just jealous of the the VC soldier. Many people see a ripped bloke and assume he just works out to compensate for other areas. These people are just lazy and/or jealous because of the commitment and discipline it takes to develop such physique. Tall poppy syndrome.
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Post by David »

^ yeah, maybe. Or maybe this is simply a storm in a teacup and people have nothing better to do.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
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